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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that men have turned into neanderthals?

189 replies

Sparklfairy · 05/09/2021 07:45

I've lived in my city for three years, never had any trouble. In the last few weeks I've had a weird guy follow me and give me his number, witnessed a sexual assault, kicked some drunk guy out of the pub myself and had another bloke follow me around saying he wanted to have sex with me.

WTF is going on? I genuinely think that men's 'standards' have dropped and they're now regressing to animals Sad

OP posts:
Journeyofthedragons · 05/09/2021 18:55

No. How fucking dare you blame women for men's behaviour

The post was aimed at the woman who said it was none of the men she knew that were the problem and all the other NAMALTing that is going on here.

I take it their menfolk aren't reading this thread, how is anything meant to change if these men don't hear what we have to say or would you rather we just continue shouting into the ether?

StoneofDestiny · 05/09/2021 19:09

My DH, DS's, DB's and male friends don't fall into the 'primitive behaviour' character as described. I'm proud of them all.

Of course there are primitive, rough, violent, uncultured women hating men around. There are rough, uncultured, violent men hating women around too.

CassandraTrotter · 05/09/2021 19:11

@StoneofDestiny

My DH, DS's, DB's and male friends don't fall into the 'primitive behaviour' character as described. I'm proud of them all.

Of course there are primitive, rough, violent, uncultured women hating men around. There are rough, uncultured, violent men hating women around too.

Yes and women are, of course, the main problem, being responsible for less than 1% of violent crime and all… Hmm
Susannahmoody · 05/09/2021 19:11

Totally agree. Only the over 50s seem to have any degree of decorum! And the Danish

Susannahmoody · 05/09/2021 19:12

My DH, DS's, DB's and male friends don't fall into the 'primitive behaviour' character as described

^

Meh. Namalt is more misogyny, propogated by men

eeyore228 · 05/09/2021 19:15

It's not solely a man issue. Behaviour generally is appalling from a variety of people. They think they can do what they want without consequence. There is a reason people behave the way they do and always an excuse. In the last few weeks I've seen teens belting around on bikes barging past people, the response if someone says anything is to’f off’. Women drunk to the point they take offence to a look. Men drunk to the stage think they're hilarious swearing and shouting. People generally don't seem to care.

TurquoiseBaubles · 05/09/2021 19:29

I presume most of these men's female friends and relatives also think that their brothers/fathers/boyfriends/husbands don't do this.

But even if your male friends and relatives don't, do they go along with it? Do they object? Do they even believe it's happening? I know lots of nice men who don't see what's going on around them. They simple assume it's not that bad and NAMALT anyway.

It's only a joke. It's banter. He was pissed. He didn't mean it. His wife let him out for the evening. He's been working really hard.

Hmm
TurquoiseBaubles · 05/09/2021 19:31

I have a lovely son. As far as I know he's respectful to women. But I can't see his whatsapp conversations, and I don't know how he behaves when I'm not around.

I would never say NAMALT because it seems to me that a hell of a lot of MALT. Or are so busy saying IANLT that they don't notice what their friends are up to Hmm

Whatwouldscullydo · 05/09/2021 19:36

I would never say NAMALT because it seems to me that a hell of a lot of MALT. Or are so busy saying IANLT that they don't notice what their friends are up to

There was a recent yougov survey that reported that 80 percent odd of women had been sexually harassed

Everyone is meeting the same 6 blokes who have a unique ability to time travel , and cover thousands of miles in a week, and can be in multiple places at once. Or it's a damn site more men responsible than people think

AICM · 05/09/2021 19:43

@Sparklfairy

I've lived in my city for three years, never had any trouble. In the last few weeks I've had a weird guy follow me and give me his number, witnessed a sexual assault, kicked some drunk guy out of the pub myself and had another bloke follow me around saying he wanted to have sex with me.

WTF is going on? I genuinely think that men's 'standards' have dropped and they're now regressing to animals Sad

Not all men are like this!
Anxietyandwine · 05/09/2021 19:48

YANBU to worried about this, however it’s not new. I was approached/chatted up by grown men in a school uniform more than I ever have been as an adult. Once had a random businessman type pull my top down in a busy town centre and he and his friends also laughed. I was 14.

Now I’m fat and 32 so basically invisible to leery men.

I am terrified of sending my beautiful DD (10) out into the world without me when secondary comes around. Sad

wellbehavedwomen · 05/09/2021 22:21

@Annoyedanddissapointed

99% of sexual offending is by males, and 88% of those victimised are women.

Quite wonder ehat would happen to these figures if women started going to gyms to strength match most average males.
Would the rates drop? Would the offenders turned against weaker males witha lack of potential female victims? Would more wome assault anyone since it's more about power than sex and with strenght comes power? Would dv numbers change?

Women, taken as an average, can't strength match males. We are not physically capable of it. That's why we have separate categories in sports. Yes, the youngest and fittest women could beat the most sedentary males their age. But this isn't about exceptions, is it? Women aren't beaten and raped by men because we're meek and feeble. It's because we are physically unable to stop them, the vast majority of the time.

Women can produce human beings from our bodies, which is a fairly phenomenal ability. But the reason all cultures across the globe subjugate women, and control their sexual potential and their reproductive potential, is because men are bigger and stronger than we are, and can make us, unless society puts sufficient barriers in their way.

The Williams sisters were defeated in straight sets by a man outside the top 200 mens, who prepared by playing golf and having a pint or two. he smoked Marlboro in the breaks. There are numerous US schoolboy individuals and sports teams that defeat every Olympian women's individual and sports team. There are thousands of men alive who could break women's sporting records at any given time. It's not skill, and it sure as hell can't be training. It's biology.

It's not just about height; it's lung capacity, muscle capacity, twitch muscle response. Men are faster, stronger and even designed differently in gait to women. Their bodies are always going to defeat ours - we need to shift the culture so their entitlement doesn't scaffold those who abuse that strength differential to make us live in justified fear.

The 'good men' make sexist comments which then support the 'bad men'. Insisting that not your Johnny, no, not ever, as so many women do just locates the problem of societal attitudes amongst a few bad apples. Which is bullshit.

Sarah Everard's killer was called "the rapist' by his own colleagues, yet he was progressed to work with guns in the Met. Nobody did a thing about reports of indecent exposure. We need men to stop participating in a bit of a laugh to the odd woman, which is a constant barrage for young women and girls - and which means men who genuinely predate are lost in the forests of men who think it's all in good fun. It isn't. It's par of what makes women demeaned and seen as lesser. This shit does not happen to men often at all, and when the odd woman does do it, she does not have the huge strength advantage that makes it so genuinely threatening when a man does it and you are out alone.

CheshireChat · 05/09/2021 22:23

NALMALT but too many damn men are exactly like this.

And while we focus on soothing the feelings of those who think they're the 'nice guys' or might even genuinely be decent, the focus shifts from making things better for women to minimising the issue altogether. And then the same 'nice guys' will claim that men and women benefit from equal rights and opportunities now and women should stop complaining. In fact, men have it worse because insert spurious reason.

So yeah, NAMALT, but rather than whine at being unfairly judged, bloody deal with the men around you.

TurquoiseBaubles · 05/09/2021 22:29

ffs. I'm pissed off with NAMALT.

No-one, ever, said all men are like that.

But there are significant number of men who are like that. So instead of saying NAMALT, how about saying "SMALT and something should be done about it".

When there's an article about drunk drivers we don't all immediately shout NADALT. An article about fraudsters doesn't result in thousands of NApeopleALT.

A significant number of men are like that. We should be allowed to say so and question why.

wellbehavedwomen · 05/09/2021 22:39

@CheshireChat

NALMALT but too many damn men are exactly like this.

And while we focus on soothing the feelings of those who think they're the 'nice guys' or might even genuinely be decent, the focus shifts from making things better for women to minimising the issue altogether. And then the same 'nice guys' will claim that men and women benefit from equal rights and opportunities now and women should stop complaining. In fact, men have it worse because insert spurious reason.

So yeah, NAMALT, but rather than whine at being unfairly judged, bloody deal with the men around you.

Completely agree.

We live in a world where fewer than 2% of reported rapes are charged - not sentenced, charged - in this country, and most rapes are never reported, and yet so many women's immediate priority isn't to focus on the issue, and what we can collectively do to address it - but to claim either "women do it too!" when 99% of the time, no they don't, or "not all men are like that!" when nobody said they were... but almost all those who are like that are men.

It's really weird. Instead of protecting women from a genuine threat, they shift the conversation to protecting men from women even discussing that threat. Why? Why do they do it? Do they really see it as okay that women face this, and not okay that some men belong to the same sex class that do this and therefore we shouldn't name that responsible sex class in case it hurts their feelings, and should pretend women do it too, even though they just.. don't? Seriously?

I want a campaign akin to the drinking and driving one, that changed the culture, done for this shit. One that frames it as abusive behaviour and linked to domestic abuse and sexual violence. One that makes the connection reflex, so the NAMALT men? They stop seeing it as normal and okay. Because it really, really is not.

Right now, their socialisation is being done by porn.

wellbehavedwomen · 05/09/2021 22:40

X post @TurquoiseBaubles. Completely agree.

ActonSquirrel · 05/09/2021 22:53

NAMALT is just another way for men and women to silence women over their experiences and make it about the men's feelings AGAIN

ChaneySays · 05/09/2021 22:55

I wouldn't say there are more 'neanderthal' men. I think men have become less masculine and more woke over recent years if anything. That said, with the proliferation of social media and feminism becoming more mainstream, I think we do see more specific resistance against this than previously - incels, etc.

Doona · 05/09/2021 22:58

Eh? Men have always been like that.

Doona · 05/09/2021 23:04

Some men, perhaps. Or men in some settings and circumstances.

BrozTito · 06/09/2021 00:34

I find obnoxious men at work often have a uniform. They'l have a normal partner and family but they are dressed like a 17 year old with a vape.

BrozTito · 06/09/2021 00:36

Oh no i have danish family and the older men among them are so moody, bigoted and cannot take any sort of joke. The others are fine.

Sparklfairy · 06/09/2021 07:04

I have no idea why people feel the need to jump in with NAMALT. I didn't say all men in my OP... but they were "all men". Theres a difference, and bleating NAMALT detracts from the argument.

OP posts:
Whatwouldscullydo · 06/09/2021 07:26

I have no idea why people feel the need to jump in with NAMALT. I didn't say all men in my OP... but they were "all men". Theres a difference, and bleating NAMALT detracts from the argument

I dont even know why we have to defend them all the time tbh.

I never told my dd1 ( 14) anything really about men one way or the other. She still thinks men are creeps. They managed to get her to form that opinion all by themselves. No assistance required. I'm certainly done trying to help People who won't help themselves.

Stop yelling at her in the street and she might change her mind.

Clocktopus · 06/09/2021 08:51

I have no idea why people feel the need to jump in with NAMALT

Because we're not allowed to have a discussion about problematic behaviours from men as a class without it being derailed into a defense of individual men. We know its not individual men but it is frequently men, it is statistically more likely to be men, and the actions of those men are connected to a broader inequality and contempt within our society. We can't have the discussion without first stroking male egos by reassuring them that we don't mean them, it's not all men, there there, we know you're one of the good guys.

They're more worried about defending men than they are about addressing the behaviours being discussed.

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