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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that men have turned into neanderthals?

189 replies

Sparklfairy · 05/09/2021 07:45

I've lived in my city for three years, never had any trouble. In the last few weeks I've had a weird guy follow me and give me his number, witnessed a sexual assault, kicked some drunk guy out of the pub myself and had another bloke follow me around saying he wanted to have sex with me.

WTF is going on? I genuinely think that men's 'standards' have dropped and they're now regressing to animals Sad

OP posts:
FMSucks · 05/09/2021 13:45

@pigsDOfly - obviously “they’re lost (poor babies)” is being sarcastic! I thought the “poor babies” in brackets would have been enough for people to realise I wasn’t empathising with men!

Yes I’m 46 so no spring chicken and it’s most certainly been in every single generation and doesn’t seem to be going anywhere unfortunately.

You’re absolutely correct that they all believe they’re “God’s gift” it does make me laugh at their deluded sense of self!

WeirdArchitecture · 05/09/2021 13:47

"outside dog people's houses" is meant to be outside people's houses, not dog people Grin

Elieza · 05/09/2021 13:51

And what about the howling smell of the extra strong cannabis. What’s that all about? The whole area smells like cat pee.

I was driving along and wafts of it were assaulting my nose. And then it went away. And then it happened again.

The smell is awful. It never used to smell that bad.

FMSucks · 05/09/2021 14:02

@Grimacingfrog - just told him we’re done tbh. He seems happy enough. Doesn’t have to listen to my “moaning” anymore, bless his cotton socks and I don’t have to sleep in same vicinity as him! Winner winner chicken dinner!

ShitShop · 05/09/2021 14:09

@BrozTito

Somebody told me on here men actually believe some porn like 'street encounters' are real and try it themselves, is this part of it? (realise i sound like the perv troll)
My DP is an intelligent man but still believed that the porn where women get in a taxi and have sex with the driver instead of paying was real ConfusedHmm. If even apparently sensible clever men believe that on every corner is a woman with no knickers on just waiting to use sex instead of a debit card we’re all fucking doomed.
lifeissweet · 05/09/2021 14:14

@Elieza

And what about the howling smell of the extra strong cannabis. What’s that all about? The whole area smells like cat pee.

I was driving along and wafts of it were assaulting my nose. And then it went away. And then it happened again.

The smell is awful. It never used to smell that bad.

Yup. My next door neighbour smokes skunk and I have to keep my windows closed now. The smell makes me nauseous. I was friends with quite a few pot heads when I was young and it didn't smell nearly so bad.

NAMALT really annoys me. Men I have talked to about my experiences seem genuinely surprised. I think women are so used to bad behaviour from men that we don't even register it enough to mention it.

I have started to tell men about things that have happened to me, though. Strangely, they never seem to say 'oh yes. I was followed around a park when I took my baby for a walk in the pram by a woman who said they wanted to have me up against a tree and made me feel really scared and threatened (there was no one else in sight)'

Women don't do this - and if they did, men would not feel physically threatened.

NAMALT, no, but enough that it's common and many thousand times more men than women are like that. It is a problem with men. We need to be able to recognise and name that.

MrsBerthaRochester · 05/09/2021 14:19

It IS all men. I was on a site specifically for no strings sex. The vast majority of men were married or in a partnership and cheating. Professional men,family men, quiet types. All of them. Everyone of them felt that because I was on a hook up site that I was basically a free prostitute and that they were entitled to have sex with me. Porn sex. I hate men.

Lessthanaballpark · 05/09/2021 14:20

We need to be able to recognise and name that.

Which is why keeping the meaning of the word “woman” is so important.

lifeissweet · 05/09/2021 14:20

@Lessthanaballpark

We need to be able to recognise and name that.

Which is why keeping the meaning of the word “woman” is so important.

Agreed
Journeyofthedragons · 05/09/2021 14:23

It IS all men. I was on a site specifically for no strings sex. The vast majority of men were married or in a partnership and cheating

....and the women?

pigsDOfly · 05/09/2021 14:23

FMSucks Sorry yes, I did realise that you were being sarcastic but there are a lot of people that really seem to think that modern men are lost and have been side lined and emasculated because of women's changing roles.

I wasn't making the assumption that you're one of them though, honestly.

I was just using your 'lost' comment to make a point Grin

Lessthanaballpark · 05/09/2021 14:24

It IS all men

I don’t think it’s all men by any means who are violent or perpetuating the awful ideas about women, but I do think the vast majority of men are silent on the matter or that even jump to the defence of other men who do do those things.

Lessthanaballpark · 05/09/2021 14:28

there are a lot of people that really seem to think that modern men are lost and have been side lined and emasculated because of women's changing roles.

It really is another version of the “woman, be nice”. And it affects young women who want to find partners. I remember DM often telling me that calling a man “sweet” was emasculating and would turn them off. Of course when you’re young you want to attract men not repel them so you try to keep the feminism quiet.

wellbehavedwomen · 05/09/2021 14:33

[quote FMSucks]@pigsDOfly - obviously “they’re lost (poor babies)” is being sarcastic! I thought the “poor babies” in brackets would have been enough for people to realise I wasn’t empathising with men!

Yes I’m 46 so no spring chicken and it’s most certainly been in every single generation and doesn’t seem to be going anywhere unfortunately.

You’re absolutely correct that they all believe they’re “God’s gift” it does make me laugh at their deluded sense of self![/quote]
My mum had a book that discussed this. As a research project, admin staff were asked not to smile or positively reflect back in interactions with men - not be rude, just be neutral. It was astonishing how angry this made some men - they were just accustomed to admin women being subtly flattering, as a professional thing, and became aggressive and enraged when it didn't happen. Teachers recorded their lessons, and found that when they consciously tried to devote more attention to girls, and thought that they had, they were still spending the majority of time on boys. It was a litany of this sort of thing - what Virginia Woolf described as a mirror, reflecting men back to themselves at twice their actual size.

We see it in the way women are met with towering rage for not being prepared to allow changing rooms to become mixed sex, for example, and certainly the howling rage aimed at JK Rowling for pointing out that women as female people have rights and needs of our own, and that it's not okay to expect women to be instantly silent on those needs, or even silently surrender the language we use to describe ourselves as a group and the things we are discussing in this whole thread, just as soon as someone from the male sex class finds them in any way upsetting.

Then there was the guy who thought he was just much better at his job than his girlfriend, and then they swapped emails and he suddenly discovered that a very capable woman was treated as an idiot, disbelieved and challenged, in a way he was never - he couldn't believe how much more challenging his work suddenly was, just as she couldn't believe how much easier. Far from pronouns in the workplace email system, personally I think we should all move to initial and surname - that way, nobody would know who a random was other than their job title!

Sexism is invisible in the same way racism is. We're all so used to it, it only hits us hard when we notice, personally, by some especially awful set of events. And quite often we're jeeringly asked what we do about Afghanistan or Saudi, as if unions in this country should be ashamed to advocate for their workers when modern slavery exists.

irresistibleoverwhelm · 05/09/2021 14:45

@pigsDOfly

FMSucks Sorry yes, I did realise that you were being sarcastic but there are a lot of people that really seem to think that modern men are lost and have been side lined and emasculated because of women's changing roles.

I wasn't making the assumption that you're one of them though, honestly.

I was just using your 'lost' comment to make a point Grin

Me too - sorry if this wasn’t clear! Not aimed at you @FMSucks, just reflecting on the general “oh poor dears they can’t quite adjust to modern roles” stuff one often hears about men in general.

Who if they haven’t adjusted by now are really fucking bad at it given that most women have been working for decades now (but funnily there are plenty other things about modern life that men seem to have adjusted to no problem at all…?)

Grimacingfrog · 05/09/2021 14:54

[quote FMSucks]@Grimacingfrog - just told him we’re done tbh. He seems happy enough. Doesn’t have to listen to my “moaning” anymore, bless his cotton socks and I don’t have to sleep in same vicinity as him! Winner winner chicken dinner![/quote]
Go you! Loving your attitude Grin

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/09/2021 14:59

NAMALT.
'Women do it too'.

Why is this rot churned out ad nauseam every single time there's a thread of this nature.

No one to my knowledge has ever argued that every single male on the face of this planet foists his unwanted attentions on women. No one. Similarly, I've seen no claims to the effect of sugar and spice and all things nice as far as women are concerned: that they are incapable of being yobs, or sexual predators, or even child abuse. Conversely, the misconception that they are incapable of such actions is potentially dangerous.

What's undeniable (just look at the statistics) is that it's disproportionately men who are the perpetrators of this behaviour. Check out the male-to-female ratio on sex offending. The sex-class who have to look over our shoulders at night. The #MeToo situation in which so many of the victims are women, and who, even when they talk about it, are often told to shut up or disbelieved.

Not all men are like that. But overwhelmingly, most of the human populace who are like that, are men.

It's as plain as the nose on your face; for which reason it's also grindingly, repetitively tedious constantly to have to point this out.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 05/09/2021 15:09

I'm 60 and I am not exempt from all this shit, i've had a male colleague at least 15 years younger show me his dick and clients saying absolutely the most obscene things to me.
On what planet do they think I am interested, I'm not particularly very attractive anymore either.

OnwardsAndSideways1 · 05/09/2021 15:18

I don't know why anyone would say lots of women do this, because they don't. The bad behaviour I see women engage in is when they are drunk, usually on a night out, and are easy to avoid in the main unless you are actively going out of your way to get in the middle of it. Whereas my children, both girls, are constantly street harassed in broad daylight by men, we had been cat-called together (and I'm a middle aged lady) and have been followed in a car in the past 6 months. No women have done any of these things to us and my girls are not on the alert for dodgy women all the time when they are out.

I'm not claiming all men are roaming the streets harassing women, but clearly 99% of those harassing women on the streets are men, indeed they are even harassing or beating up other men, it is men that are dangerous in these situations, not the odd quite drunk woman, they stand out because they are not the norm.

OnwardsAndSideways1 · 05/09/2021 15:22

@MarieIVanArkleStinks completely agree, you put it very well and you are right, it's tedious to have the first post about this to be about those poor men who are maligned by this statement, not the women (and men) who are victims of violent and unpleasant and creepy and suspicious men, which if you live in a big city like I do and live on a main road, is a feature of everyday life, and yes, it is worse than ever since the pandemic started IMO although it was quite bad after Brexit. Everyone is poorer and more on edge and that makes people behave worse.

reprehensibleme · 05/09/2021 15:23

Speak Up

Did anyone hear this on R4 yesterday afternoon - really depressing:

'Women may be caricatured as babbling chatterboxes, but in public, women speak a lot less.

Be it in conferences or committee meetings, television or parliamentary debates, women do not get a proportionate amount of air space as men.

Mary Ann takes us on a global journey to find out why women aren't speaking up and if they are being disproportionally side-lined, excluded from the world's debates.

She explores the role history and social conditioning plays: the ancient Babylonians thought if a woman spoke in public, she should have her teeth smashed with a burnt brick; in classrooms today boys get far more attention, teachers accepting their calling out of answers, while punishing girls for the same behaviour.

She hears that when women do speak, they are often spoken over regardless of their status. In the Australian High Court, women judges and even the female presiding judge were regularly interrupted by male advocates. And women aren't heard in the same way as men; many struggle to see that a woman might be the expert in the room.

So how can women be heard? In a year in which the head of the Tokyo Olympics organizing committee said women talk too much and Jackie Weaver had to assert her authority in a fuming parish council meeting, we do need solutions.

Should women be hesitant and tentative or bold and chatty? How can a slight change in the layout of a room make a fundamental difference? Mary Ann finds out how to speak up and be heard, to get your point across and influence both men and women.'

Spysolation · 05/09/2021 15:25

British men?
Yadnbu. I agree.

Againstmachine · 05/09/2021 15:32

Men behave like shits, women behave like shits, doesn't help that they see shitty behaviour on TV and think it's acceptable from reality shows

Tinpotspectator · 05/09/2021 16:01

@Spysolation

British men? Yadnbu. I agree.
No. Some men, wherever they are from.
Lycanthropology · 05/09/2021 16:15

@SprayedWithDettol

You do realise that 50% of Neanderthals were female? They were also intelligent, had family groups, made tools, had language, made cave paintings etc etc. They were of shorter stature and had distinguishing features due to the climate, though some people mistake these traits as being less intelligent, which they don’t appear to have been.

The men you are describing don’t resemble our cousins. They are louts.

This ^

Neanderthals were highly skilled, brave, social, compassionate creatures.

Some human men, like those described in this thread, couldn't hold a candle to them.
Whether this behaviour is getting worse I don't know: I live in a rural area and don't work, but it does worry me for my daughters growing up and moving to more urban areas for uni, work, etc.