DD15 has been accused of assaulting another girl

[Inapickle5]

Morning all, not sure what I’m after here but here goes…

DD15 has been accused of assaulting another girl last night (call her Emily). The backstory is that DD had a boyfriend for around 6 months and they were together up until around 3 weeks ago. This boy is now seeing Emily who lives in the same village as us and understandably DD is very upset about it. It was her first boyfriend and DD also use to be friends with Emily. Anyway, we had a chat about it a couple of weeks ago and she seemed to be OK, spending a lot of time with her friends instead. I know that she’s been looking forward to going back to school to see some of her other friends that she’s not been able to visit during the holidays. I thought she was OK and over this boy as she hasn’t really spoken about him since the break up.

DD went out yesterday with a couple of her friends, her curfew is 10pm at the moment.
Around 8:30pm there was a knock on the door from Emily’s mum. We know each other as it’s a very small village and our families have grown up together. She was very upset and explained that DD had assaulted Emily, apparently grabbing her arm and leaving a mark/bruise, DD had also been rude to Emily’s mum. I didn’t really get the backstory from her as she was so flustered at the time and then left but did say that she would be logging it with the police. I immediately phoned DD and told her to come home. She’s explained her side of the story which matches up with some of the information that Emily’s mum gave me, but has denied putting her hands on Emily. There were some messages exchanged over Instagram between the two of them, calling each other names and arguing over this boy. Emily then said to DD “come up to my house and we will have it out here”. DD has shown me these messages.

DD then went up to the house and they both started arguing in the street. The boy was upstairs apparently. Emily’s mum then came out to see what was going on and told DD to go inside with them to talk about it. Two of DD friends stayed outside and waited for her. Emily’s mum started asking them questions as she didn’t know why they were fighting. At that point the girls starting arguing again and DD called Emily a “bitch” and so Emily’s mum told DD to get out. This is when DD apparently grabbed Emily by the arm and assaulted her. DD has a different story and has said that when she got up to leave Emily’s mum pushed DD out the front door.

DD has shown me a picture that Emily has put up in some group chat of her arm. I’ve taken DD’s phone off her for the time being so she cannot contact these people, but I’m really not sure what to do at this point. By no means is DD an angel and I will be having a serious chat with her at some point about all of this but I really don’t believe that she’s hurt Emily. She’s been truthful with me about all of the messages, swearing and admitted to calling Emily a nasty name but she’s still denying that she assaulted her. Ive not heard anything from the police or Emily’s mum but I don't want to contact Emily's mum and cause another argument. Should I give the police a ring myself and log it with them but explain what DD has told me? I don't want DD to be in trouble, believe me she's in enough trouble at home. I don't believe that Emily is an angel either and she was clearly winding DD up in the messages. They are both as bad as each other imo. I I just have no idea how to handle this situation and any advice would be appreciated...

Fwiw OP IMO if they were lying about the wrist grab the mum wouldn’t have come round to speak to you and let you know she was logging it with the police. She’d just have called the police. She didn’t come round to confront you or have another go at your daughter, She came round to tell you as courtesy because you’re long time neighbours. If she really wanted to get your dd in trouble by making up an assault she wouldn’t have given you a heads up so you could prepare your DDs defence for when the police came.

From your initial description of the incident, it seems Emily’s mum was quite surprised and shaken by the incident, so much so that she thought it warranted calling the police. She probably won’t once she’s calmed down but I think her threat to call them is probably a knee jerk reaction to how shocked she was by the venom and violence that came out of your daughter.

As you say it is a village where you are known to each other. Sounds like she did the right thing by asking the two girls to speak about what was going on. As you admitted, she had no knowledge it was about this boy.

As the boy was present somewhere in the house, he will very likely go around giving his version of events.

If I were you, I would invite Emily’s mum round for coffee and the both of you come to an understanding that it is your girls’ best interest to stay away from this boy and instead to be supportive of each other.

Don’t engage with the mother and wait til the police come round.

If your dd is going to be questioned under caution get a solicitor.

A bruise sounds like older damage, OP. Unless the picture was taken a day or two afterwards, I'd be inclined to think the bruise was caused by someone else before the altercation happened. I'd expect to see a red mark on a recently grabbed wrist and no bruising until later.

One common reason for grabbing someone's wrist is that they've raised a hand to hit you about the face or head. In a pushing/shoving scenario it would be more common to grab someone by the upper arm. Did the other girl come at your DD with her hand raised to strike?

I highly doubt the police will pursue anything, but your DD wants to keep a low profile for a bit and go NC with her former BF and his new GF!

And have a serious chat today (I’d already have had it) about going round to fight someone and slabbering on social media.

Your daughter went there looking for a fight, I would definitely believe that she is capable of violence. And she was vulgar to the mum, again your daughter sounds completely capable of doing as they described.

A lot of this doesn’t really add up tbh. DD shouldn’t have gone to Emily’s house but she’s a heartbroken teenager and they’re not known for their sensible decision making, so while I’d be having a serious chat with her about that, I couldn’t completely condemn her for it.
Why would Emily’s mum have invited her in?? Weird behaviour.
And then the mark on Emily’s wrist. I think it’s unlikely your DD would be going for her wrist, and then that she would be able to grab it hard enough to immediately bruise. I bruise easily and once got grabbed by the wrist by a man in a club who attempted to drag me with him, I did get bruises but the pressure he put on was immense to do so.
The most likely scenario is that it all got out of hand verbally in the house so Emily’s mum chivvied your DD out of the house, with Emily in the close vicinity and in the hullabaloo Emily bashed her arm, maybe because she was jumping back as DD turned to her or something, all of which would lead every party to believe they’re telling the truth but really it’s somewhere in the middle.
From here, she needs to completely disengage from Emily, the ex boyfriend, Emily’s mum, anyone who may be close to the situation (eg ex’s friends and Emily’s friends). Go on a blocking spree and she needs to keep completely clear at school.

Please do not tell your daughter that you believe the other Mum or Emily. Even if you think your DD is not bring 100% you need to ensure she trusts you. Give her time, tell her how upsetting it all is, talk about controlling emotions and anger and please do something to improve her self esteem. 15 year olds should not be fighting like in the street or anywhere over a boy fgs.

I’d be less inclined to believe your daughter if I were you. And at a certain point it doesn’t even matter whether she grabbed this girl, she deliberately went to this girl’s house looking for a fight- even if just a verbal one.

You do say that you don’t think she’d grab her, but before this, if asked if you thought she’d go to have a shouting match at a girls house- would you have said yes?

Either way, sit tight, don’t call the police or this girls mum, and have ongoing conversations with your daughter about how this boy is totally not worth potentially having the police called on her.

@Inapickle5

I think that's quite harsh *@CallMeNutribullet*. In what way am I enabling bad behaviour? I've already said countless times that DD was wrong for going up there, engaging with them, sending nasty messages, calling Emily names and being rude to her mum. That's not the way she was brought up and I am disappointed. I'm upset that she chose to go up there and put herself in that situation, rather than come to me, her dad or even her older sister as we could have talked it through and helped her. She chose to go up there and confront Emily knowing that it could possibly turn physical, and that's something that she needs to learn from. At no point have I said that my daughter is blameless here or even a victim but I don't believe that she is lying about the assault.

That’s an odd thing to say “she chose to go up there and confront Emily knowing that it could possibly turn physical…”

So deep down you know your daughter can get violent when angry? Why do you believe violence would have been on the cards?

@LolaButt it was an awful period in my life, very few believed me, I was fortunate that my pastoral care teacher did, he waited with me with the police whilst my parents were called and his words to the police always stuck with me when they gave her version of events "have you seen the size of ButY compared to X? Did ButY grab a step ladder or something to pull her hair and create a mark on her temple because there is no other way she could have physically reached"

I'll always remember and be grateful to that man for believing me and supporting me when others didn't and encouraging me to never give up or give in to them

@Puppalicious or the mother's not crazy but has just blindly accepted her daughter's story that she was assaulted by the OP's daughter .
I agree with another poster that this could just be rather jeremy rsey kyle-esqe. Some families really just are trashy and don't behave how you would expect reasonable adults to behave. Instead of ending the argument by bringing Emily inside, the mother chose to prolong it and stoke tensions by confining 2 angry teenagers in a small space. Pretty damn stupid.

I dislike the view that what Emily's mum said happened should be blindly accepted because she's an adult, has nothing to gain, was upset etc. Adults are just as capable as lying and causing trouble as teenagers are.

You need to be careful about accusing Emily’s mum if assaulting your daughter. It could blow up spectacularly in your faces and that would make Emily’s mother more likely to press for something to be done.

I may be biased here but the OP does not sound like she lives in an area where the people have a Jeremy/Kyle way of living.

Honestly is this a good use of police time? Teenage girls arguing over a boy...

OP you have two things to deal with here.

First, reassure the other mum that you have heard her and that you are taking it seriously. I would send a message "hi, I'm sorry if my reaction was inappropriate, I was so taken aback when you arrived and it took me some time to process it. I'm shocked at what I've heard. I hope Emily is ok. I would like some time to speak to my daughter properly and get to the bottom of it all. Is that ok? Perhaps you and I could meet tomorrow evening to discuss."

Then sit and speak to your daughter. No judgement, listen to her. Ask her why she was so upset. Explain to her that another person behaving badly is a reflection on them and only them. What was her purpose going to Emily's (was she drunk by any chance)? Talk it all out, tell her why you're so upset and get her to agree to the consequences; confiscating her devices for a month, if necessary apologising to Emily.

If she's adamant that she didn't touch her and your instinct is that she's telling the truth you will have to share that with the other mother but really I would work hard on inviting the other mother to be more collaborative about it.

It is a huge shame for friends to fall out over a boy.

I’d do nothing to be honest
As nothing will happen
It’s a minor cat fight between children
Keep DD in
And do nothing and don’t engage with parents either
Let’s hope this all calms
Down

What sort of area do people have a Jeremy Kyle way of living then @Why2why and how can you tell that from the op’s posts?

She chose to go up there and confront Emily knowing that it could possibly turn physical, and that's something that she needs to learn from. At no point have I said that my daughter is blameless here or even a victim but I don't believe that she is lying about the assault
I don't understand that. She did many things that you acknowledge that you didn't think she would do. So why is lying not something that she could do that is out of character to? Ultimately, you don't know, so whereas it's ok not to insist that she is lying, it would also be ok to consider that maybe, she could be.

Your daughter shouldn't have gone to Emily's house in the first place but, also, Emily is in the wrong for asking her to go round, especially knowing the lad was there and it would wind her up even more. Teenagers don't always think straight, particularly when emotions are involved. The mother should not have invited your daughter into the house, if anything, she should have told her to go home, then rung you and told you what was going on. Who knows what went on inside the house, it's their word against your daughters. Adults can lie too and I think the mother is panicking and covering her back because she shouldn't have asked your daughter in and knows full well that she pushed your daughter out of the door and could be in trouble. Emily might have bruises but just because your daughter hasn't, it doesn't mean she wasn't pushed by an adult. I don't believe for a minute she's told the police. I'd tell your daughter to keep well away from Emily and the lad and hope it all blows over.

I'm not accusing Emily's mum of lying, but I know DD was rude to her so maybe she's annoyed by that and wants to see DD in trouble...

Op, I’m struggling to get past this. You seriously can’t even think that, the mother isn’t twelve. She’s a grown woman. If she says your daughter assaulted hers then it’s likely the truth. She’s no reason to lie and your daughter has every reason.

When this all calms down you need to talk to her. She can’t go assaulting and attacking other women. If the boy wished to be with her he would. Attacking the woman isn’t going to change that.

Hopefully the woman hasn’t reported to the police and it was said in the upset of it all but really take the position your daughter is lying through her teeth.

[quote ButYIsTheRumGone]@LolaButt it was an awful period in my life, very few believed me, I was fortunate that my pastoral care teacher did, he waited with me with the police whilst my parents were called and his words to the police always stuck with me when they gave her version of events "have you seen the size of ButY compared to X? Did ButY grab a step ladder or something to pull her hair and create a mark on her temple because there is no other way she could have physically reached"

I'll always remember and be grateful to that man for believing me and supporting me when others didn't and encouraging me to never give up or give in to them[/quote]
What a lovely man. It’s amazing how with age you can look back and take a positive from what is at the time a horrible time in life.

I was badly bullied at school. The amount and depth of lies both kids and their parents came up with was ridiculous. Not being believed is a horrible position to be in.

@Why2why. Both Emily and DD were exchanging nasty messages before DD went up there. DD was obviously very upset and hurt about the boy and Emily rubbing it in her face really didn't help. DD didn't ask or threaten Emily that she would go up there. Emily invited her to go up and sort it out face to face, whether she meant verbally or physically we'll never know. I'm not saying that DD went up there with the attention of bashing Emily's face in, but did she know it might turn physical? Yes, I'm sure she did. There's always that possibility but that can happen in any argument, with kids or adults when emotions are running high.

As I said DD doesn't have form for fighting with people. She's not the type of person who goes around assaulting people...

I agree with not responding to the mother at all and taking your DD’s phone for a bit, and see if the Police do contact you. The thing is your DD may be lying, so I’d focus on removing any lines of contact between DD and this girl and her boyfriend.
A couple of people have said don’t accept a caution as it will follow you around for life, why is that?

Do NOT contact the other mum. Any texts from you will be shown to the police and you don't want your words and intentions twisted.

Your dd made a massive mistake going to Emily's house

Emily's mum made a questionable decision slowing your dd in the house. Was she worried about neighbours or did she really think That it could be sorted out inside ? We will never know

The physical altercation - this is why your dd needed to take someone with her. They would have been a witness just in case. I suspect that it won't be known what really happened and if you used a lie detector then it would come out that everyone is telling the truth because they believe it.

Your dd needs to block the boy and Emily. I understand that she's broken hearted but anything she says or does is going to lead to more trouble and she doesn't need that. The boy will be spreading his version at school but she needs to grit her teeth and ignore.

If they contact the police then don't accept a caution. Say no comment.

@Why2why

I may be biased here but the OP does not sound like she lives in an area where the people have a Jeremy/Kyle way of living.

What kind of area would that be? People behave appallingly every day in every kind of area… even villages.