To think no-one needs to be discussing anyone else’s will before they’re actually dead?

[AlternativePerspective]

Thread after thread after thread on here from posters pissed off over what they’re apparently not going to inherit and how they’ve been hard done to.

Why do people seem to think they’re entitled to inherit anything? Especially before the person is even dead.

I honestly have no idea what’s in my parents’ will, I’m guessing they will have divided up their money between me and my sibling, but it’s their money, and frankly the idea of wanting to know where it might be going once they’re dead is surely incredibly crass.

Personally I hope they spend it, and I find it sad that anyone doesn’t have all the things they could in life just so they can make provision for their children in death.

Personally if my child behaved like some here do about my money when I’m gone I would see to it that he didn’t get a penny.

No-one is entitled to anyone else’s money, and the sense of entitlement says far more about the entitled than the giver.

I once heard of a couple who came up with a simple way of distributing their possessions amongst their children. They stuck blue dots on the items to be left to one son, green dots on the items for their other son and pink dots for their daughter.

Unfortunately, the daughter got to the family home first and rearranged the dots to her liking.

Dépends on thé family. My parents have always been very open with their wills: my sister and i have copies. My dad had some horrible surprises when his mother’s will was read after her death, and he doesn’t want any surprises for us. I don’t think it’s crass, I would talk openly with my kids about our wills. Plus I’m not on board with ignoring the inevitability of death, I’d much rather talk openly about it. It’s good practice at being able to talk about these things.

DHs parents were the opposite: wills hidden and never discussed, total denial about getting older and unwillingness to be open about things like who their executors are etc. It made life quite difficult when they did begin to decline.

@Babdoc

I disagree. It makes financial planning a nightmare if you have no idea what your future prospects are, and it is only sensible to ensure that parents, grandparents etc have made suitable provision to minimise inheritance tax. It could be a huge relief to an adult son or daughter with severe health problems for example, if they knew theirfuture was financially secure even if theybecame unable to work long term. Adult offspring can plan future moves up the housing ladder if they know an inheritance will help with the deposit. And so on.

You’d be a bit silly to make future financial decisions on ‘expected’ inheritance. You’ve no idea ‘when’ said inheritance will happen. Or if there will even be any? What about end of life care? That could easily wipe out inheritance for many.

I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss the contents of your will with the benefactors, but what is very unreasonable is when dc (and even worse dil's) account for their inheritance whilst their parents are alive and in good health. The thread yesterday by the DIL saying she wants her PILs to leave money to charity rather than their dgc left me agog.

My mum seemed only to happy to tell me she was leaving me nothing. She was nasty to me all my life though so wasn't too surprising. I don't think she needed to tell me but she felt she had something to gain from it.
I will be telling my dc what I plan to do when the time comes but more to give reassurance they will be ok financially.

I disagree - I think more people should talk about money openly rather than hiding it away. Proper estate planning is not distasteful but actually a sensible, loving thing to do.

I think the person making the will is the person who should be bringing it up and discussing it.

If you have a good relationship with parents, then unless they’ve told you otherwise then IMO it’s normal to assume an inheritance, assuming there’s going to be anything to leave. But decidedly unsavoury to talk about it or gloat like a vulture waiting for a sick animal to die.

But TBH I can well understand people being aggrieved if they know that for some apparently unfair reason they’re going to be left out.

As for this attitude of ‘people can leave their money however they like’ attitude, common on MN, if there’s been no estrangement or serious falling out, then I don’t agree at all. Dh and I wouldn’t dream of not making dds the major beneficiaries of our wills.

In this house there was a lot of angry discussion about a friend’s will (dh was an executor so we knew well in advance what the will said) because it was grossly unfair and controlling to the future widow. I had an awful job to keep my mouth shut to the bloke, but if I’d said anything I knew he’d have taken it out on his wife. Luckily he saw fit to alter his will to some extent at least, not long before he died.

YABU, obviously. The will is the last communication with a loved one, it's the last chance they get to show how much they love them or otherwise.

If a will is a straightforward fair split between the children, it doesn't need to be discussed. If there is any bias towards one or another (even for what on the face of it should be a fair decision, such as one being child being disabled and the other a paedophile drug addict) it definitely should be discussed in advance so there is no extra hurt caused at what will be a difficult time.

Think how brutal it would be to be a child who is grieving their parent, at a time when their emotions are raw they find out that their parent didn't love them as much as their sibling. They may have no idea why and have no way to find out. It's cruel and nasty and will condemn them to worrying what they did wrong for the rest of their life. You only have to read about people whose parents cut them out of the will unexpectedly and for no obvious reason to understand what vile behaviour that is.

Personally I think the idea of wills should be scrapped, it should be obligatory that the estate passes to spouse (if also parent of children) or split evenly between the children. People who didn't want this would still be able to screw a child over by sharing the cash out while they're still alive, but the child whose getting cheated would at least be able to have it out with them and cut ties with them if they choose.

I disagree. It makes financial planning a nightmare if you have no idea what your future prospects are
so what do you do if elderly parents require expensive care towards the end of their lives? Kill them off because it doesn't fit with your financial plans?
How grabby - I hope your parents realise how you view their money, and leave it all to charity - avoids inheritance tax.

Slight aside but a lot of people here are saying they know the content of their parents’ wills as they are executors - is that a requirement of the UK law that the executors get the wills in advance? Here (in ROI) there’s no such requirement, and I am executor of my sister’s will yet have never seen it, similarly the executors of mine don’t have a copy of it and don’t know the contents. Just something I observed in this thread and was curious about.

No my Mum showed me her and my stepfathers will voluntarily. My sister and I are executors.

My MIL is in ROI and has refused to share the contents of her will with anyone (apart from the solicitor) and my idiot husband and his brother have agreed to be executors. She has form for being nasty, so they may well have some difficult things to deal with.

@sammylady37

Slight aside but a lot of people here are saying they know the content of their parents’ wills as they are executors - is that a requirement of the UK law that the executors get the wills in advance? Here (in ROI) there’s no such requirement, and I am executor of my sister’s will yet have never seen it, similarly the executors of mine don’t have a copy of it and don’t know the contents. Just something I observed in this thread and was curious about.

No it is not a requirement. I am the executor for close family friends and have not seen the will. I just had to agree to do it.

(actally, it was just a courtesy they asked me. You do not have to get formal agreement from the executor either!)

Like so many things with wills, it's not the law you have to show the will to the executor, but it's the moral thing to do.

Especially if you're planning on pulling a blinder. The only recourse a hapless executor has to wreaking havoc on their own living family as you cackle from beyond the grave is to refuse - as long as there is someone else to take over.

Being an executor is a big, thankless job at the best of times and unpaid unless the lawyers do it. Say no if you don't see the will.

@WorraLiberty

YANBU, well said!

And it's nearly always the DILS on here, trying to get their mitts on their inlaw's money.

They rarely post about trying to bite their own parent's hands off.

Yes, very well said OP.

Although Worra, the DiL offender I saw this week managed to bite both hands. Not only was she offended because her recently bereaved FiL planned to leave a portion of his money to his GC, & she felt all butthurt about that because ... she doesn't have children [eyeroll] -

She then went on to explain it wasn't about the money, (yeah right) because she earns plenty, & also has her deceased dad's money sitting in her account. A dad who she said nothing else about at all - he only got mentioned in terms of the money he'd left her, no reference to actually having a relationship with the man, & not so much as an adjective to describe his personality or her feelings about him.

Revolting.

I think part of the problem is that certainly in the UK, we have a fairly unhealthy attitude towards death. No one wants to think about it, talk about it, prepare for it etc.

My parents have always been very open with me and my sibling. We know everything is left to us equally. We know where their valuables are, where their paperwork is, who the Will is registered with, who their financial advisor is. When the time comes, everything should be straightforward which will inevitably make the whole process much easier.

I read a comment on here recently, someone made the point of saying that a Will is effectively your relative/loved one's last words to you, and that can never be unsaid. So if there are some surprises, then I can see why it would forever taint a memory of a person or leave a bad feeling because you can never ask them why.

We're currently sorting out a will for a relative who recently died, and I echo a PP who said if you donate to charity, PLEASE make it a fixed amount, not a % of the estate. The complications and hoops that need to go through because the charity has been left a 50% share of the estate is making everything hugely complicated. We're terrified of getting it wrong because there are horror stories of national charities getting involved and using their heavy-handed lawyers to fight everything to get "their share" while simultaneously having the effect of driving down the value of the estate

I disagree. It makes financial planning a nightmare if you have no idea what your future prospects are, and it is only sensible to ensure that parents, grandparents etc have made suitable provision to minimise inheritance tax.

Oh, the endless MC nightmare of financial planning & minimising inheritance taxes. There ought to be a specialist charity set up to pander to solve this shocking first world problem.

Most families' financial planning consists of planning to be able to pay the bills & put food on the table each month.

@AnneLovesGilbert

No one is entitled to inherit, of course you’re right. But financial planning is important and responsible and we’re all open about our wills in my family eg my mum asked my brother if she should include his step kids in hers and said it was up to him and his wife. I’m my dad and step mum’s financial POA so they’ve discussed their wishes with me. I’m my mum’s living will person. I’ve got step kids so we have comprehensive provisions for them and our shared one, all far too young to discuss it with but in time we will.

Transparency isn’t a bad thing. Grabbiness is.

This.

OP, the thing is that there is nothing original in your post. It’s literally the default in this culture to pretend death doesn’t exist and that we can just carry on forever and there won’t be any fallout when people die intestate/there are nasty surprises in the will that destroy relations between the surviving relatives.

YABU to think that it's any different from discussing any other family financial matters. Everyone dies sooner or later. Refusing to talk about arrangements relating to death or what happens afterwards doesn't stop people from dying. And talking about it does not mean you want people to die. In previous generations it was normal to talk about such things, not 'crass'. It seems a very modern thing to pretend we're immune to death and sweep it under the carpet. My parents often quite cheerfully talk about their wills or what will happen to their house and belongings. Nothing is guaranteed of course, and my parents can do whatever they want with their money and belongings. But talking about it shouldn't be taboo imo.

so what do you do if elderly parents require expensive care towards the end of their lives? Kill them off because it doesn't fit with your financial plans?

No. It helps to know what is likely to happen or might happen. That doesn't mean you think things are set in stone. I mean... you might as well say it's pointless to make any provisional plans in life, on the basis that you might get run over by a bus tomorrow so why bother? Don't think about a career based on the degree you're doing, because you might fail your exams. Etc.

Op, I completely and utterly agree. It's their money, their business and I have manners and grace. I'm shocked that it's become so normal in our culture.

But what if they perfectly happily make it your business by talking to you about it?

@Supersimkin2

Like so many things with wills, it's not the law you have to show the will to the executor, but it's the moral thing to do.

Especially if you're planning on pulling a blinder. The only recourse a hapless executor has to wreaking havoc on their own living family as you cackle from beyond the grave is to refuse - as long as there is someone else to take over.

Being an executor is a big, thankless job at the best of times and unpaid unless the lawyers do it. Say no if you don't see the will.

Gosh, it never crossed my mind to look for a copy of the will from my sister when I agreed to be executor, nor did it enter my head to give my executors a copy of my will. I wouldn’t be happy with either situation, tbh. Not because I plan on dropping a bombshell on anyone but because I consider my financial management to be private and don’t want to discuss it with anyone.

Interesting. My DF has given me and my sister a copy of his will and explained everything in it to us. He then decided to tweak things and as my DDs are now adults, included them in the conversation. They had opinions on some bequests to nieces/nephews of DF who don't contact him from one year to the next, and some ideas of charities that DF could support. DF has added them as executors if either sister or I cannot fulfil that role.

As a family, we don't have financial secrets. I am signatory on some of DF's bank accounts so if he becomes incapacitated, I can use his funds for immediate care.

My BiL is a grabby bastard so I have no idea what will transpire when my DF finally departs. However, neither he nor my DH is a benefactor or executor. BiL has received a lot of support from DF over the last 15 years so can quite frankly do one.