Page 14 | Am I a Karen?

Meraas · 01/09/2021 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post Talk guidelines.

Mousetown · 01/09/2021 19:09

Meraas. They are deleting your posts, not mine. I’m the one reporting them.

Meraas · 01/09/2021 19:15

They deleted my posts because they referenced your post calling me a misogynistic slur word. Oh the irony.

ThinWomansBrain · 01/09/2021 19:18

just a twat for using the term "Karen"

DrSbaitso · 01/09/2021 19:19

@HereForThis

Because "free speech" must be uphold or doesn't it work in this context? People can say what they like, others can choose not to like it.

Free speech means the government can't arrest you for what you say. Nobody on the thread has suggested that using the term Karen should be an arrestable offence.

Mousetown · 01/09/2021 19:20

sigh

Following a conversation with mn about your misunderstanding of my post, and your repeated posts about it for the past 24 hours, they asked me to flag to them to look at. The ones I reported they have agreed to delete.

It’s been 24 hours Meraas. You misunderstood my post and I have repeatedly explained myself. You continue to post about this and have been lying about what I said. Please stop this now.

Mousetown · 01/09/2021 19:21

@Meraas

They deleted my posts because they referenced your post calling me a misogynistic slur word. Oh the irony.

Oh and the misogynistic swear word is a word you yourself use on mumsnet. A search clearly shows this.

HereForThis · 01/09/2021 19:22

Oh I know what it means. I just see some pp here who go on about 'free speech' when it has nothing to do with the government or what free speech really means, yet forget to use the same logic when it comes to something they disagree with.

Meraas · 01/09/2021 19:23

Mouse, you clearly are shamed of using the word as you’ve gone to great lengths to report all my posts referencing the slur you used.

Would have been easier to just apologise surely.

I’m only responding because people keep addressing posts to me. Do you really think I’d post otherwise?

Meraas · 01/09/2021 19:25

Oh and the misogynistic swear word is a word you yourself use on mumsnet. A search clearly shows this.

The difference is I’ve never called anyone that slur. Do you see the difference?

Meraas · 01/09/2021 19:25

@HereForThis

Oh I know what it means. I just see some pp here who go on about 'free speech' when it has nothing to do with the government or what free speech really means, yet forget to use the same logic when it comes to something they disagree with.

Yep - free speech is only for white people.

DrSbaitso · 01/09/2021 19:26

@HereForThis

Oh I know what it means. I just see some pp here who go on about 'free speech' when it has nothing to do with the government or what free speech really means, yet forget to use the same logic when it comes to something they disagree with.

Nobody's been calling for anyone on the thread to be arrested either, although Meraas is probably getting close. Her ego must be on speed, it's been dancing maniacally for a day and a night now. Doesn't it ever sleep?

@Mousetown, everyone on the thread including Meraas knows and understands what you said, and that you categorically did not call her a cunt. Don't worry.

Meraas · 01/09/2021 19:30

@DrSbaitso surely you are the one with an ego on speed, as you’re telling me what I think and understand. Do not presume to speak for me, I don’t speak your language.

MNHQ

LilyMumsnet · 01/09/2021 19:34

Hi all

Can we draw a line under referencing deleted posts now - it's derailing the thread.

Thanks.

HereForThis · 01/09/2021 19:34

To be fair, I think Meraas has stood on her own against 5 or 6 people for about 24 hours now or so. I haven't seen anything ego-driven that others haven't displayed too. I have to doff my hat to her for holding her own @Meraas 💪🏼

HereForThis · 01/09/2021 19:45

I also think Meraas has received a lot more abuse for her opinion. Haven't seen her making someone out to be stupid like you and others have DrSbaitso. You indeed started with 'virago' and implied people who use Karen will have trouble with it because it has 3 syllables. Meraas replied and it went on from there. So no i don't think she's being a maniac at all. It's been a back and forth with everyone involved.

2kl4skl · 01/09/2021 20:52

@DrSbaitso

I can't get worked up about actual entitled racists being called a Karen.

Why not call them entitled racists?

I didn't say they should be called Karen, just that I don't particularly care. Whenever there's a thread on someone like Amy Cooper people are more outraged about the word Karen than actual racism

I already said I don't agree with the word being bandied around. But it started out with a different meaning, just like how someone might use a posh name to stereotype an out of touch, conservative white man

It's gone a bit far now, but that's what it was initially.

Polkadots2021 · 01/09/2021 21:08

@Magnoliamarigold

Currently in a debate with a 19 year old nephew about transgender issues.

I believe gender is a social construct. But:

I don't believe in puberty blockers for 10 year olds.
I'm currently on my third IVF cycle and for this reason I'm not convinced young people (over 18) should take hormone replacement therapy.

Been reliably informed this makes me a Karen. AIBU?

No - it means your 19 nephew does not have the complexities of critical thought yet to analyze why you can disagree with him on this inherently complex topic in multilayered way. It is easier for him to just blurt out that you are a Karen.

DrSbaitso · 01/09/2021 21:14

There was a thread up earlier by a woman having a terrible dental emergency. She was in great pain and couldn't get to the only dentist that would accept her (walked with a stick). Her concern was that if she pushed for treatment closer to her, which she quite clearly needed, she would be a "Karen".

That's what terms like this do. Now as J K Rowling rightly says: so what? What next, they'll say you've got fleas? But the point is, terms that weaponise sex or race or any other such characteristic are intended to silence and scare people, for fear of being placed in that stereotype. And it can cause real harm, because it's incredible what you can manipulate people into putting up with if they're scared of being hit with the stereotype the term covers.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2021 23:15

But it started out with a different meaning, just like how someone might use a posh name to stereotype an out of touch, conservative white man

It's gone a bit far now, but that's what it was initially.

It started out on the subreddit of a misogynistic man in the US about his ex, Karen, and quickly was used to describe assertive women who complained or made their presence known, according to the speaker's negative perception. It has always been a misogynistic slur.

Somewhere fairly recently the race element came in, in the US with Amy Cooper etc. Here in the UK it is widely used to describe any woman who the (frequently male) speaker wants to shut down. It's about as nuanced as "chav" or "ok boomer". A woman called Karen in the U.K. is also just as likely to be the service worker as the complainer, it's not a primarily middle class name or "posh" here.

ChaneySays · 02/09/2021 00:33

I didn't say they should be called Karen, just that I don't particularly care. Whenever there's a thread on someone like Amy Cooper people are more outraged about the word Karen than actual racism

I already said I don't agree with the word being bandied around. But it started out with a different meaning, just like how someone might use a posh name to stereotype an out of touch, conservative white man

This is pretty much how I feel.

I'm not overjoyed about the word 'Karen', but irritating a few middle aged white women is the lesser evil if the alternative is to silence a term that allows black and oppressed women to call out those that would denigrate them.

Without a universally recognised concept it's much harder to point it out. It's like 'mansplaining' in that respect. The term 'mansplaining' now seems to get used in a fairly broad sense and sometimes is used to silence men who are justifiably just defending their position/explaining their point, but it was an invaluable term to point and out and identify a certain type of individual/behaviour.

GinUnicorn · 02/09/2021 07:19

@ChaneySays

I didn't say they should be called Karen, just that I don't particularly care. Whenever there's a thread on someone like Amy Cooper people are more outraged about the word Karen than actual racism

I already said I don't agree with the word being bandied around. But it started out with a different meaning, just like how someone might use a posh name to stereotype an out of touch, conservative white man

This is pretty much how I feel.

I'm not overjoyed about the word 'Karen', but irritating a few middle aged white women is the lesser evil if the alternative is to silence a term that allows black and oppressed women to call out those that would denigrate them.

Without a universally recognised concept it's much harder to point it out. It's like 'mansplaining' in that respect. The term 'mansplaining' now seems to get used in a fairly broad sense and sometimes is used to silence men who are justifiably just defending their position/explaining their point, but it was an invaluable term to point and out and identify a certain type of individual/behaviour.

It’s not just about irritating middle aged women although I am curious why that doesn’t matter to you. Are women’s feelings inconsequential?

It’s about a misogynist slur used to silence women generally - women of colour aren’t excluded from misogyny.

You don’t fight prejudice by enforcing another type of prejudice.

Should I be allowed to use a racist term due to being raped? (For the avoidance of doubt obviously not)

Should a victim of racism be able to use a misogynistic term? No

All this does is keep hateful terms active. How can we tackle racism, sexism, misogyny hate if we say it is allowed in certain circumstances. It’s madness.

Now imagine for a second you had a five year olds daughter named Karen. You would be setting her up to be bullied. It’s not okay and we should be calling this out.

DrSbaitso · 02/09/2021 07:30

@ChaneySays

I didn't say they should be called Karen, just that I don't particularly care. Whenever there's a thread on someone like Amy Cooper people are more outraged about the word Karen than actual racism

I already said I don't agree with the word being bandied around. But it started out with a different meaning, just like how someone might use a posh name to stereotype an out of touch, conservative white man

This is pretty much how I feel.

I'm not overjoyed about the word 'Karen', but irritating a few middle aged white women is the lesser evil if the alternative is to silence a term that allows black and oppressed women to call out those that would denigrate them.

Without a universally recognised concept it's much harder to point it out. It's like 'mansplaining' in that respect. The term 'mansplaining' now seems to get used in a fairly broad sense and sometimes is used to silence men who are justifiably just defending their position/explaining their point, but it was an invaluable term to point and out and identify a certain type of individual/behaviour.

Don't you get it?

It's not a term for middle aged white women, although that doesn't excuse your obvious derision and dismissal of them (and yes, that's clearly there even if you are one yourself. Just an older version of "not like other girls". Internalised misogyny is still misogyny.).

It's a term used to shut women up in general. Did you miss that OP is herself from a BAME background, and her nephew? Who uses this slur but apparently wants to be a woman?

And it does more than merely irritate. It shut OP down, just like it shut down yesterday's woman in a terrible medical emergency.

It's not new. It's not some clever new word to empower minorities against racism. That's just a load of shite designed to validate it. It's just the modern version of shrew, harpy, scold, harridan, virago (ducks) and so on.

It is "your mum" for the 2020s. It is just the latest incarnation of the oldest shit that always gets thrown at women.

It is pure misogyny, the oldest, laziest and most boring kind, the go-to anti-woman slur for thick people in 2021. That's all it is. Nothing more.

Neotraditional · 02/09/2021 07:44

@DrSbaitso 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 02/09/2021 08:05

I'm not overjoyed about the word 'Karen', but irritating a few middle aged white women is the lesser evil if the alternative is to silence a term that allows black and oppressed women to call out those that would denigrate them.

So you have decided that these women don’t matter.

Whip is next on your list of people who don’t matter? Because that’s a slippery slope.