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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Am I a Karen?

375 replies

Magnoliamarigold · 31/08/2021 12:14

Currently in a debate with a 19 year old nephew about transgender issues.

I believe gender is a social construct. But:

I don't believe in puberty blockers for 10 year olds.
I'm currently on my third IVF cycle and for this reason I'm not convinced young people (over 18) should take hormone replacement therapy.

Been reliably informed this makes me a Karen. AIBU?

OP posts:
apalledandshocked · 31/08/2021 20:56

@Magnoliamarigold Sorry, I wanted to add if you are still on this thread... It does sound like you are being supportive/listening to him - I hope you don't think I am implying you weren't. It is good that she has someone to talk to about it. The only thing I would be a bit careful of is language (as this thread demonstrates people can have wildly different interpretations of the same word). So when you say you "could not support them taking hormone therpay" - that could mean, "If you take hormones you are going against my wishes and advice, I will have no choice but to be angry and cut all my support " or it could mean "I will still be there for you but very worried about the health implications for you". I suspect you mean the latter - but be aware they might hear the former...
And also take care of yourself - being a nineteen year old with identity issues isn't easy but neither is undergoing your third round of IVF so be kind and supportive to yourself as well...

Mousetown · 31/08/2021 20:57

Literally only posting here because I refreshed a tab on my screen and saw you are not moving on from this. Not sure why you are still here shouting about it. You wouldn’t answer my question and said my opinions and views are of no worth or value, so I’m not sure why you are still talking about my “worthless” opinions 🤷‍♀️

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 21:13

@Meraas

I didn't know it had power! I used it in a throwaway and slightly sarcastic comment. I'd have completely forgotten about it if you hadn't been bringing it up like a dodgy kebab in every post since.

Well you could say the same about my comment about out-spelling you. Or did you think I was suggesting a spelling bee?

Right.

For quite some time now, it's clear that this has become nothing to do with Karen, racism or any noble cause.

It's about your ego having taken great exception to my casual use of the word "virago" to make a point several pages ago, for reasons I can only guess, and now it's doing a frenzied, and really kind of shit, dance for validation in every post and won't get off the stage.

I am not qualified to handle infuriated egos with an obsession with three-syllable words, so I will simply leave you with this. Goodnight and good luck.

Am I a Karen?
YourFinestPantaloons · 31/08/2021 21:14

Your 19yo nephew is a sexist for calling you Karen.

lockdownmadnessdotcom · 31/08/2021 21:23

@YourFinestPantaloons

Your 19yo nephew is a sexist for calling you Karen.
And ageist. I thought 19 year olds were a bit more switched on than this.

And I agree with your views, OP.

Raggedyanabell · 31/08/2021 21:26

Well, she clarified her post saying she was calling me ‘cuntish’, not a cunt, thinking she was being clever. Or did you conveniently miss that too?

I didn't miss anything thank you @Meraas . She said "And how about we just don’t shit on each other? Call out racists for being racist, but don’t be a cunt to a whole other group of people while doing so." It is a very very clear post, I don't see how you can misunderstand it, which leads me to believe that you are purposely misrepresenting it.
Her post has now been deleted and you continued to accuse other posters of not calling out someone for 'calling you a cunt' ..now that they can't read the post themselves and see that, actually, that is not what happened.
You've behaved really dishonestly in this discussion and continued to misrepresent other peoples posts.
Tell me what I've "conveniently miss too" you're implying I've purposely missed several things here so go ahead, explain what I've conveniently been missing.

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 21:55

Thanks, @Raggedyanabell. I didn't see anyone calling Meraas a cunt, which is why I didn't call anyone out on it. It's good, and entirely unsurprising, to find that nobody actually did.

Mousetown · 31/08/2021 21:59

And the clarification was saying I was talking about cuntish behaviour. Wasn’t even referring to her, just cuntish behaviour in general Confused

Meraas · 31/08/2021 22:00

@DrSbaitso

It's about your ego having taken great exception to my casual use of the word "virago"

Seriously DrSbaitso, are you delusional? Why would I take exception to the word virago?! You’re not making answer sense. I bet you’re not even a doctor.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 22:01

Ooh another typo, Sue me!

Meraas · 31/08/2021 22:02

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post Talk guidelines.

OverByYer · 31/08/2021 22:03

Am I a Karen?
Easy is your name Karen? Yes
Is your name not Karen? No
There. Easy.

Bluntness100 · 31/08/2021 22:03

Genuinely surprised anyone is still using the outdated mysogynistic term Karen. Particularly a teenager, It really was just a minority of poorly educated middle aged people who thought it was hip.

It never was.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 22:04

[quote apalledandshocked]@Magnoliamarigold Sorry, I wanted to add if you are still on this thread... It does sound like you are being supportive/listening to him - I hope you don't think I am implying you weren't. It is good that she has someone to talk to about it. The only thing I would be a bit careful of is language (as this thread demonstrates people can have wildly different interpretations of the same word). So when you say you "could not support them taking hormone therpay" - that could mean, "If you take hormones you are going against my wishes and advice, I will have no choice but to be angry and cut all my support " or it could mean "I will still be there for you but very worried about the health implications for you". I suspect you mean the latter - but be aware they might hear the former...
And also take care of yourself - being a nineteen year old with identity issues isn't easy but neither is undergoing your third round of IVF so be kind and supportive to yourself as well...[/quote]
Unfortunately the vultures circling this thread keep de-railing it.

Mousetown · 31/08/2021 22:05

They deleted it because you complained saying I called you a cunt, which I didn’t. They don’t bother spending ages looking at context. Now, seeing as my opinions are worthless and of no value according to you, I’m not sure why you are still talking about them.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 22:07

How do you know I complained Mouse, are you psychic?

Someone has been accused me of being dishonest, so I responded. You need not respond if you don’t want to.

Raggedyanabell · 31/08/2021 22:31

Mousetown knew she what she was doing when she said ‘don’t be a cunt’. Which is why MNHQ deleted her. Repeatedly.

You knew what @Mousetown meant when she said "don't be a cunt" it was perfectly clear in the context of her post. You decided to take it out of context repeatedly in an attempt to highlight some fake hypocrisy in the women arguing against misogynistic slurs. And so you could then accuse them of "conveniently missing" things that were never there.

Raggedyanabell · 31/08/2021 22:32

Bold fail.

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 22:38

@Raggedyanabell

Bold fail.
Meraas' entire presence on this thread is a bold fail.
WarOnWoman · 31/08/2021 22:40

@Bluntness100

Genuinely surprised anyone is still using the outdated mysogynistic term Karen. Particularly a teenager, It really was just a minority of poorly educated middle aged people who thought it was hip.

It never was.

I'm not sure where you got that from. Karen was originally used by Black people in the US to describe certain types of racist white women. It was co-opted by white men (Incels) to describe all women who had opinions and became "famous" through memes.

Teen boys and girls are using it, including younger teens You can see it on online platform games in chat, and hear it as in rl.

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 31/08/2021 22:41

Karen started off as a way of referring to a particular type of entitled white American woman and quickly became a misogynist insult so no, you are not a Karen.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 23:02

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post Talk guidelines.

Neotraditional · 31/08/2021 23:06

@Meraas

I haven’t seen anyone use that term so I can’t comment. You however, said the following in defence of using the name Karen as a means of describing racist, while women:

How convenient. If you want to see it, just scroll up, it’s there.

It isn’t their prerogative, or yours, to use an offensive term. Especially when complaining about people being offensive to you!

Funny how you were able to scour the thread looking for my posts! Of course it’s their prerogative. Unless you’re at the receiving end of racist abuse, you have no idea how you would react. And I’ve not called anyone a Karen.

Are you honestly that dim?

And yet you say I’m the one insulting people?

You asked me to quote you so I did. So to you, bring racially abused allows you to abuse others? I stand by my assertion that you aren’t very bright, as demonstrated by your inability to recognise your hypocrisy and continual misrepresentation of other posters’ comments. I’m embarrassed for you.
Justanotherlurker · 31/08/2021 23:08

I'm not sure where you got that from. Karen was originally used by Black people in the US to describe certain types of racist white women. It was co-opted by white men (Incels) to describe all women who had opinions and became "famous" through memes.

It was originally used by all races to describe a particular white woman, it wasn't used to just mean 'women with opinions' it was calling out behavour that was called out all the time in men, it was co-opted to include racism then the wider meme usage of just women having an opinion.

Just like 'Gammons' etc, it's gained wider meaning, from my personal anecdote the people most likely kicking up a fuss over it are quick to pigeon hole other groups without any sense or irony.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 23:08

Meraas' entire presence on this thread is a bold fail.

Didn’t you say goodbye hours ago Dr S?