Am I a Karen?

[Magnoliamarigold]

Currently in a debate with a 19 year old nephew about transgender issues.

I believe gender is a social construct. But:

I don't believe in puberty blockers for 10 year olds.
I'm currently on my third IVF cycle and for this reason I'm not convinced young people (over 18) should take hormone replacement therapy.

Been reliably informed this makes me a Karen. AIBU?

Hey there, I have four points.

1. I agree that "Karen" is misogynistic and dismisses women's thoughts and right to talk/have an opinion

1. People have the right to go through hormone replacement therapy if they are capable and have made an informed decision.

1. Good luck with IVF!

1. Teens will be teens, but I love that you actually spend the time to debate and talk with your nephew, and actually listen to his point of view and try to understand it.

@Neotraditional

Toddler and cunt are comparable to you? 100% you cannot be a serious poster.

It’s laughable that you are so sensitive to perceived criticism while championing the use of misogynistic slurs.

Well that was a deliberate misrepresentation of what I said.

It’s laughable that you think I should be silent whilst you have insulted me repeatedly and watched as others have insulted me too. Funny how you champion be being called a cunt.

I have every right to object to racism and I will keep doing so. You and your ilk won’t silence me.

That may be so and he was an *sshole. But right now the term has evolved and it means something different

Yes it has evolved, it means "every older woman I don't approve of"

Even every woman. I've seen young women, Black women and Asian women called it by men. That's evolution for you.

Saying don’t shit each on other and yet calling me a cunt in the same sentence. You’re so transparent.

As the poster I quoted pointed out, it was a general point about people using the Karen slur for white women generally, which is misogynistic, but you've decided to make the whole thread about yourself. It isn't.

His calling you a karen for holding an opinion makes him a misogynist.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Saying don’t shit each on other and yet calling me a cunt in the same sentence. You’re so transparent.

As the poster I quoted pointed out, it was a general point about people using the Karen slur for white women generally, which is misogynistic, but you've decided to make the whole thread about yourself. It isn't.

Nope, it was aimed at me, hence it was deleted.

And these are the women I’m supposed to defend and be in solidarity with. Don’t make me laugh.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

That may be so and he was an *sshole. But right now the term has evolved and it means something different

Yes it has evolved, it means "every older woman I don't approve of"

"Dictionary" definition:

[[https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen
Karen]]
Middle agedd woman, typically blonde, makes solutions to others' problems an inconveniencee to her although she isn't even remotelyy_ affected.
Karen suess the local city council after they installed a new STOP signn that hides the sun from her window for two minutes a day. The sign was installed after a school boyy_ on his bicycle was hit by a speeding driver and died.

Karen refuses to wear a face mask for her 5 minute trip to the supermarket during a pandemic. She harasses the workers, asks to see the manager and threatens to sue.

Karen complains that her favorite parking spot was replaced by a ramp for wheel chairs. She parks her car in the old spot anyway and shoots a vlogg_ about it.

mouse

The quote you made is still clearly visible, i agree you weren’t calling anyone a cunt

MNHQ delete by mistake on occasion, I’m sure they would agree that errors are sometimes made…its not a comment on the very hard work they do normally, its human

@Ereshkigalangcleg

That may be so and he was an *sshole. But right now the term has evolved and it means something different

Yes it has evolved, it means "every older woman I don't approve of"

This.

My 18 year old knows better than to use the term anywhere near me!

If my 19 year old nephew used it I would be educating him on how not to shut down women in general and women of a certain age in particular.

"Dictionary" definition:

That's a "popular slang" website. Not an actual dictionary.

Note the lack of mentions of race, though. As I said, it means women the speaker doesn't approve of, for whatever reason. Like women who wear masks, and tell other people not to. Or women who don't wear masks. Anti vaxxers, or women who pull their children out of events where people aren't vaccinated. It just means "woman who asserts herself". The morality is subjective.

That's because is it is a misogynistic slur that men and other women can chuck around with impunity when they encounter a woman they disapprove of, rightly or wrongly. Plus ça change.

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

mouse

The quote you made is still clearly visible, i agree you weren’t calling anyone a cunt

MNHQ delete by mistake on occasion, I’m sure they would agree that errors are sometimes made…its not a comment on the very hard work they do normally, its human

They deleted 3 posts with the cunt reference and they’re very good at their jobs. The know when someone is slyly trying to get around the personal attack rules.

The only mistake was thinking she could get away with it.

They quite often make mistakes, Meraas. I and others have had posts reinstated before because they conceded they were "a bit heavy handed" in deleting. Stop accusing people of saying things they didn't, just because you've decided everything on this thread is about you and your opinions. The comment was about people using one form of bigotry to counter another in general. MNHQ often err on the side of caution.

*That's because is it is a misogynistic slur that men and other women can chuck around with impunity when they encounter a woman they disapprove of, rightly or wrongly. Plus ça change.

^This with bells on. It’s also a slur that can be used on a Mumsnet thread in the certain knowledge that it won’t be deleted. (Unlike ‘cunt’, which I agree with PPs wasn’t even used as a personal attack in the offending post on this thread.)

Also the blatant misrepresentation that the poster didn't say "we" when she did.

"And how about we just don’t shit on each other?"

Was how she led into her quite clearly general post about countering bigotry with other bigotry. Which you conveniently can't see, because it's been deleted.

It’s actually still there, quoted. At least it was an hour ago.

@MrsRobbieHart

Someone who weaponises their relative privilege against people of colour - for example, when making police complaints against black people for minor or even - in numerous cases - fictitious infringements.

So could that someone equally be a John? Or a David? Or a Simon? Why Karen?

Honestly, I can't get worked up about actual entitled racists being called a Karen. They deserve a lot worse. People like Amy Cooper ('Central Park Karen') or the woman who called the police on a black girl selling lemonade.

It is unpleasant to spew to any woman who disagrees with you or just white women in general. That is just misogyny and shutting people down whose opinions you don't like.

Feel sorry for the actual names Karen's out there whose name has been dragged through the mud

I can't get worked up about actual entitled racists being called a Karen.

Why not call them entitled racists?

Because "free speech" must be uphold or doesn't it work in this context? People can say what they like, others can choose not to like it.

*upheld, ffs!

Forget the self-identification debate - your nephew needs to be educated about what a misogynistic term Karen is.