To be upset Mum friends from school have done this?

[Yup83]

There is a group of four of us that often go for coffee after school drop off. Last term one of them suggested we all go camping sometime, which I thought was a really nice idea.

Whilst talking with one of them the other day I found out that the three of them and their families are all going camping, but I wasn't invited.

I feel pretty hurt as I thought we were all good friends, and also especially as I was originally invited when it was first mentioned.

I'm not really sure what to do about it, with school starting back I'm bound to see them all again and it's been playing on my mind. I don't really know if I should say something, sack them off and put my energy towards other friends who don't exclude me or try to make more effort with them.

I also feel pretty stupid that at the ripe old age of 38 I'm being "left out", feels pretty childish.

Where's op gone?

I have complete sympathy with anyone who feels hurt by being left out and I do not wish to minimise that feeling in any way but there are other ways of seeing a situation like this.
Firstly, I grew up in a more causal culture than the more formal one in the U.K.
“Let’s all go camping/ come round for dinner/ “, “ you will be my bridesmaid” were often just nice suggestions with absolutely no hard plans behind them and no expectations.
This mutual understanding does not seem to exist in the U.K. and has caused big misunderstandings with DH’s UK family.
For me the fact you have discussed doing something in the future, in no way means that it is a definite plan.
Definite planning is a whole other thing.
So having a chat about a possible future event with friends and then not
actually taking part in it, is completely normal to me

 Also a  psychiatrist friend once showed me a test for children’s self esteem/image.

Each child was shown a picture of a children’s birthday party, with no guests.They were told to imagine that it was their party.
The children were asked why the guests had not come.
The more secure children came up with reasons like,
“ They all got the day wrong”
“ The invites did not arrive on time”
“ The guests are stuck in the snow”
The more socially anxious children were likely to say,
“ Nobody likes me”
“ They are being mean”
The takeaway from this for me and the one I convey to DCs is,the reason for other people’s actions may have nothing to do with how they perceive you.
Finally I don’t think it is a healthy dynamic for everyone in a friendship group to feel that they have to do everything together.
One DD has a group of 5 friends.One friend’s Mum is a music teacher and kindly provided free music lessons to DS at our house.
My DD was adamant that under no circumstances could the friend come along with the Mum.
If Henrietta came to our house Sapphire, Tilly etc ( not real names) would be excluded.
DD was being challenged about this and made to account for “ favouring” Henrietta.
They all lived over 10 miles away!
This nonsense went so far, that Henrietta’s Mum was organising a sitter for Henrietta instead of bringing her along to our house for an hour, to prevent upsetting the other friends.
Luckily the full madness of this became a joke.
A chat was had with DD and it was made clear, that it is perfectly acceptable to have separate connections, conversations and meet ups within a larger group.
Nobody should be deliberately excluded, if they they were willing and able to take part in a get together, but nobody could mandate that the others could not socialise without them if was not convenient or practical to include everyone.

@PearlyRising

YANBU to be hurt.

It's always hurtful when you have that moment of reassessment. Wait, we're not actually close friends? I am left off this list?

That is a painful experience. But the only cure is to take your focus off that group and concentrate on other friendships. It is counterintuitive though because the lizard part of your brain is tellinng you that you must get back in with that group, that your survival hinges on it.

Ignore your lizard brain and ring up and connect with people who are sadly peripheral to your every day life.

xx

Not read the thread in fact much but just wanted to say these are really valuable words. Thank you

A group of women I thought were my close friends did exactly this to me - except it was a holiday in Spain - it was excruciating when I found out,i was so upset I dumped the whole miserable shower - all 4 of them, and now have a whole lot of better friends who don't plot against me behind my back - my only regret now is that I wasted so much time with people who didn't deserve my friendship, may they rot in hell

Finally I don’t think it is a healthy dynamic for everyone in a friendship group to feel that they have to do everything together.

I think this is the crux of it, and it’s becoming clearer to me as I read through this thread.

Within my circle of friends originating at the school gate, it is very much the exception that everyone is invited to everything. It’s not realistic, or possible.

There are times when M, A, C and I catch up.

There are times when M, A, K and I catch up.

When E, A and I catch up. When H, M, A, K, S and I catch up.

And then there are times when A, S and K catch up. When K, H and M catch up. When A and E catch up. When A, K and H catch up. And let’s be honest, many, many other permutations. In those latter catch-ups, I’m not included.

Of course, it’s awkward walking into a restaurant, and seeing a group of your friends together, and you realise you weren’t invited.

But I’m entirely realistic that my group of friends do things without me all the time, just as I get together with some of them and not others all the time, too.

I don’t know. Maybe that’s why some people experience fewer issues with these sorts of group friendships.

If you expect to be included all of the time, without expectation - then YOU ARE going to be disappointed. You are going to feel hurt and excluded. You are going to feel let down.

And you will write off the friendship/s. And come on here to say, ‘I know just how you feel, this happened to me, too’.

However, if you’re accepting of friendship group norms, and feel comfortable with the idea that small group catch-ups involve some people, some of the time, then maybe things swim along a bit easier for you.

My group of uni friends were a bit like this. I was always on the edge of the group and got left out of various things. Every time I saw them after uni, there was mention of something I’d not been included in. It hurt every time. Eventually I just stopped seeing them and realised I was much happier for it.

All of that convoluted invitation depends upon transparency which if lacking is duplicitous
If everyone is aware that Mac and all alphabetical permutations are including and excluding participants that’s clear.it’s the unsaid and exclusionary that has potential to upset

You could just ask them? Wait a week or two to settle into term and have a few small talk conversations. Then “What happened the camping trip we were supposed to go on this summer?” Smile, be breezy and just wait to see what they say. If you don’t ask it will eat you up. Remember you have done nothing wrong, nothing to be fretting about.

School gate mums are pretty much the worst group of women I've ever come across. I have met some absolutely lovely genuine ones too of course but some of them are so manipulative and vicious. Some of them just seem to go insane with it all.

I was overjoyed when my DC went to Secondary School and I didn't have to get involved any more. And the worst of them set up a bloody WhatsApp group once they started Secondary School so she could carry on the drama, silly woman, I exited from that pretty quickly.

And thankfully now a couple of years in they've all got new and different friendship groups which they choose and decide on with no parents involved.

@EspressoDoubleShot

All of that convoluted invitation depends upon transparency which if lacking is duplicitous If everyone is aware that Mac and all alphabetical permutations are including and excluding participants that’s clear.it’s the unsaid and exclusionary that has potential to upset

It doesn’t depend on ‘transparency’ at all.

I have no idea when people meet up without me, or make plans without me - why would I?

There isn’t some system whereby there’s a run sheet of get-togethers on it, with who’s invited, and who’s not all listed.

All I know is that some of my friends get together without me sometimes. And that’s OK. They’re allowed to.

Sure thing

Yes but usually its all over FB, instagram etc so you can see when your friends ans so called friends are having a great time somewhere that you haven't been invited to.

@EspressoDoubleShot

Sure thing

I can’t possibly be the only person whose friendship group operates like this. Can I??

We’re all mid-40s. Old enough and ugly enough to understand how friendships work. We don’t need to run as a pack, in the way we might have done as teens or 20-somethings.

Caveat - I’m not in the UK and we don’t post on social media. So maybe my set-up is highly unusual…. 🤔

How awful I really feel for you. It can be hard to reconcile as adults why other adults who have children feel like they need to behave like children themselves. I agree with other posters and some parents do go to school with whatever reason wanting to make school parents as friends. I think though the ones best served and who stay out of the drama are the ones who never get themselves involved in a clique. If people are genuine you don't need to be in a clique they will be your friend organically and it won't be conditional on whether you gel with the rest of the clique. I don't think I would question the camping trip because a) it's already happened and b) you brining it up shoes them it's an issue to you and gives them power. You weren't invited and there was a reason and I highly doubt you will get the truth (If they don't like you or your husband etc) they aren't going to say that. Truthful people wouldnt go behind your back and organise a trip then be fake to your face.

You've been hoodwinked into believing these people are your friends but they aren't. Focus your time and energy elsewhere. Fool you once shame on them but fool you twice shame on you.

You will find other people to socialise with once you divert your attention from the mean girls.

@LimeRedBanana
you’re not in uk, I’d suggest your experience is not replicable
By all means share your non uk experience with caveat it’s not universally applicable

I am willing to bet there are plenty of women in the UK having drama-free friendships, just like mine.

I lived there for 13 years, so am not completely without experience.

Sure thing

user654351
This seems to sum it up perfectly playground politics . I remember having friends like this at Uni and then they moved 5 mins from where I lived after graduating I wanted to avoid them but ended up forming a close friendship again with them despite my reservations I forgave the behaviours from before and they repeated the exact same behaviour again . I was a very true friend and it made me lose my trust in people. I thought maybe they had matured but some people are transparent and awful. They can’t even hide their motives . They just jump ship once they have exploited what you have to offer or when something better comes along in their eyes.So when I got a facebook msg asking to meet up years later after having achieved some interesting goals in the creative industry and this was probably why I became of interest again. I finally declined and didn’t get sucked in a 3rd time. For some friendship is networking cliques or just using people and moving on. I would invest in getting a better group more worthy of proper friendship and take it as a compliment that you don’t fit in with them because hopefully you would never wish to treat someone this way because thats what it takes to join that group on holiday .

Clearly they see you as a school mum to have coffee with - not as a friend to do lots of other things with.

Now that you know this you can decide if you still want to hang out with them for coffee or not.

I am personally not a big fan of spending regular time on very casual friendships - but have done occasionally when it was convenient and I wasn't very busy.

@LimeRedBanana

I am willing to bet there are plenty of women in the UK having drama-free friendships, just like mine.

I lived there for 13 years, so am not completely without experience.

Plenty of us

Friendships ebb and flow and some, like the OP is experiencing, turn out to be not what we thought they were sadly - but there are many long term friendships forged over the wait at the school gate.

@LimeRedBanana

Finally I don’t think it is a healthy dynamic for everyone in a friendship group to feel that they have to do everything together.

I think this is the crux of it, and it’s becoming clearer to me as I read through this thread.

Within my circle of friends originating at the school gate, it is very much the exception that everyone is invited to everything. It’s not realistic, or possible.

There are times when M, A, C and I catch up.

There are times when M, A, K and I catch up.

When E, A and I catch up. When H, M, A, K, S and I catch up.

And then there are times when A, S and K catch up. When K, H and M catch up. When A and E catch up. When A, K and H catch up. And let’s be honest, many, many other permutations. In those latter catch-ups, I’m not included.

Of course, it’s awkward walking into a restaurant, and seeing a group of your friends together, and you realise you weren’t invited.

But I’m entirely realistic that my group of friends do things without me all the time, just as I get together with some of them and not others all the time, too.

I don’t know. Maybe that’s why some people experience fewer issues with these sorts of group friendships.

If you expect to be included all of the time, without expectation - then YOU ARE going to be disappointed. You are going to feel hurt and excluded. You are going to feel let down.

And you will write off the friendship/s. And come on here to say, ‘I know just how you feel, this happened to me, too’.

However, if you’re accepting of friendship group norms, and feel comfortable with the idea that small group catch-ups involve some people, some of the time, then maybe things swim along a bit easier for you.

But is there a time when ALL of the group go on holiday without you? That's the difference with what the OP has described and what you have detailed.

I completly agree that all you can do is be nice, be lovely, be gracious, don't mention it even and as suggested focus on other friendships. I know this can be super painful. You would probably never get the real full reason why left out. I doubt they accidentally forgot you exist. Show them for behaving like children by behaving like an adult. Lots of hugs. Hurts, I know x

Lime you could be describing my friendship group. I got a jolt when I saw 4 close friends on a foreign city break! But it had come up in conversation when just the 4 of them were there they all really like shopping and work in creative fashion industries and we such a large group 4 easier to travel with. Plus when I thought about it I do stuff with them in other sub groups which I realised leaves others out!

Are you sure you are all not being too intense? All this knashing if teeth when you are not invited to one thing? Doesn’t mean they all hate you and need to ditch the whole group! Seems excessive if they otherwise friendly and you don’t get negative vibes

Unless you are prepared to walk away from this friendship and all that entails (presumably you were an integral part of each other's lives during term time and would miss that company and the routine) you need to take a deep breath and confront them. If you aren't seeing any of them in person then a group WhatsApp message, not aggressive or accusatory but a 'hey looking forward to catching up soon but I hear you're all off camping - how come I missed an invite?'

If they ignore then you know they're not your friends as they were intentionally leaving you out and haven't got the guts to tell you but it could be a mix up (each assumed the other had told you or similar) so don't go all guns blazing just yet. But you absolutely have to confront them as you will never feel the same level of trust or friendship and whilst confrontation might seem hideous, the alternatives are likely to be far more drawn out and painful. Do it today before school goes back - I've always avoided confrontation but I've adopted 'swallow the frog' as my new mantra and keep repeating it to myself until I've done the thing I'm avoiding.