Is your partner a creep?

[Bedpost]

97% of women have been sexually harassed, so there must be a huge number of men responsible for this. I’m a lesbian and don’t have many male friends and never knew my dad. I’m fairly confident that none of my male friends or friends partners would shout at girls in the street, grope women etc (can’t be sure though). I’m wondering who on earth all these men are. There must be millions of these gross men walking among us, so does anyone know them personally? They must be someone’s dad/brother/partner/friend. So does anyone have a current partner or other male they are close to that they know/suspect is a creep?
I’m not really expecting anyone to say yes, but doesn’t it seem strange that nearly all women have experienced sexual harassment but no one seems to know a man (apart from a distant relation or boss/ex they are not on good terms with) who behaves this way? Are you sure that your partner doesn’t stare at/follow/make comments/harass women when you are not there?

My current one, I'm as sure as I can be that he isn't. I can't say he never was as I don't know what he was like before I met him.

He's a kind, respectful man and a real ally to women.

I can think of a few partners and ex partners of friends who I would definitely think would be like that and probably some of my own from when I was younger.

As another poster put it the veneer of civilisation is very thin with many men.

I started my career at the bar. 99% of male barristers I worked with were creeps. Outwardly oh they were very respectable with their courteous chivalry and naice lives. But god good the vast majority were pigs.

Almost without exception they had mistresses; propositioned the pupils; laughed at rape jokes; judged all the women on fuckability; groped arses; sent dick pics or some combination thereof.

Of course they would never yell out of a car at a women, but would they manhandle her in a bar sure. Fortunately it prepared me really well for a side step into politics where I can tell you it was absolutely standard.

I just read the ackward captain link.

I just wanted to share my experience with rape culture and how men are protected.

But I'm sure somewhere his DP is on here or somewhere else saying what a lovely guy he is.

And whisper my name - god love him being accused of that

I was raped by a friend. When I was unconscious as a teenager through drink.

I told my friends, i confronted my rapist I cried, I screamed and I let them know. Big group male and female.

The guys went to my rapist the next day to see if he was ok. Not me. I moved away and made my life better.

I ran into a few of my so called friends a few years later and they told me they believed me.

I said I didn't care. I believed me. And if me screaming the truth into the face of my rapist - who had previously been a good friend - meant that another girl was safer then it was worth all the social exclusion.

That's the cost of telling the truth and I still don't regret it.

I have a better life with better friends and the things he did are just irrelevant now.

My partner wouldn't. I'm fairly certain some of his friends would though if drunk.

However, I know more women in my life that would behave this way to men.

I note you mention you're a lesbian. I get a lot of (unwanted) female attention. I am not a lesbian. I find it threatening and intimidating, so it's not just men

This post just made me roll my eyes so hard I’ve lost them in the back of my head. Every fucking time there’s a thread about male behaviour, someone has to come along to pretend women are just as bad. Why????

@Naunet

I note you mention you're a lesbian. I get a lot of (unwanted) female attention. I am not a lesbian. I find it threatening and intimidating, so it's not just men

This post just made me roll my eyes so hard I’ve lost them in the back of my head. Every fucking time there’s a thread about male behaviour, someone has to come along to pretend women are just as bad. Why????

Loads of lesbophobia on MN for a start.

I have every faith in my current partner that he is not a creep let alone a sexual predator, same with my brother and the (not many admittedly) men I am friends with.

But. My ex was disgusting. A rapist (he raped me on a regular basis), a misogynist and he openly sexually harassed young women in front of me several times. I have also been sexually assaulted and harassed by men I know/knew as well as strangers more times than I care to count. All of the “friend” and acquaintances who have openly been creeps to me or sexually assaulted me, have without exception come as a big shock- I didn’t expect them to be that way, ever, and one in particular is probably a very dangerous man in hindsight- very forceful.

I adore my father- he's a brilliant dad, and my friend. But he is also a creep. I see him ogling women and am certain amongst his men friends he's a lecherous and horrible as they are. I have male friends and colleagues who I enjoy the company of, who make me laugh and who I feel safe with- that are undoubtedly creeps. I have heard them comment on other women, and heard what they say to each other when they think I'm not around. I think that actually most men are creeps.

It is possible that the women on this thread saying their husbands aren’t creeps are deluded - but there are people openly saying they tolerate it, including a woman whose husband makes ‘dodgy jokes’ about the sexual availability of teenagers. I mean, why would our husbands bother hiding it from us when there are women who will allow it?

What I mean is, some men who do this are obviously very open about it, even to the women in their lives. I know my ex was before I got rid, and he probably still is to this day.

My ex was a creep, and with hindsight, it was clear he liked young girls.

Luckily for young girls, he died last year so won't be harrassing anyone.

I’m as sure as I can be that my husband doesn’t do this; if I had any doubts then he wouldn’t be my husband.

^This. Tbh I've read about plenty of awful husbands/partners on the Relationships board of MN who are probably creeps in this way too. Presumably they mostly don't harrass other women in front of their wives/girlfriends though.

No my DH isn't a creep.

I once caught him eyeing up a woman's breasts on the next table, but in fairness so was I, they were magnificent!

But I've met plenty. I work in a male dominated industry and there's a sizeable minority of creeps.

Thankfully there's still a vast majority of decent blokes out there.

No one thinks the person they are in love with has such faults

But some will but their partner will be blind to this until they have fallen out of love

So take any group of couples there will be been in that group men pay prostitutes for sexual, have affairs, are letchy

We just don’t see it and believe it’s not ours if we didn’t we wouldn’t be in love

i would split the creeps into two groups , those who do shout offensive comments etc and those who do creepy things online, from hardcore porn right down to amassing a Pintrest file of dodgy pictures searches etc.
Just because we might have a 'nice man; as husband father etc, does not mean he doesnt 'expresses' himself online

I would also bet many of us have fathers, brothers, male friends or partners we see as being charming

We see them as that a young women is more likely to find them creepy they will sense that the men also find them attractive (which I don’t think is wrong just they don’t need to put on the charm/act like a creep)

@Guineapigbridge

Kabaloa, he does have some deep seated mysogynistic attitudes (from his parents, who espouse those attitudes pretty openly imo). That said he's a full participant in running our children and our home, has always supported me pursuing my career which takes me all over the world, never looks at porn without my consent/ethical participation and is a faithful husband and father. In action and deed, he's a good man and respectful. When I say he "veers over into creepiness" I mean he has a very flirtatious style and has-been known to gawk/stare at women he finds attractive. He also makes dodgy jokes referencing the sexual availability of teen girls. In that regard he's a pretty typical man of his generation: borderline creepy.

Nah your standards are just too low. That's really grim and shouldn't be viewed as typical behaviour.

I think it's a relatively small percentage of men, say 5%, but they never stop

More like 95%

Just because we might have a 'nice man; as husband father etc, does not mean he doesnt 'expresses' himself online

So true. And even if they’re not saying if, they’re thinking it!

Because nearly all men think that behaviour is part of being a man. The veneer of civilisation is very thin with most men. It's all part of how they compartmentalise life and don't connect to their feelings.

Depressing though it is I agree with this.

I've often asked myself the question whether a man can truly be a feminist and the answer is unequivocally no. Because they are all socialised in the patriarchy and none of them actually understand what its like to be a woman operating in patriarchy.

Yes plenty of them have been brought up by strong women and civilised man and have learned to curb those elements of their behaviour and that blatantly chauvinistic behaviour is frowned upon. I don't know a single man who would catcall women, I would certainly hope none would harass women or make them feel uncomfortable. And my boyfriend and all my male friends know sexist language is unacceptable in front of me.

But most of this is learned behaviour which they have acquired as a soft skill. For a significant number of them it is something they use to "pass" as opposed to something they believe deep down. Deep down I think the vast majority of them are capable of being creeps, they just choose not to because they are smart enough to understand that that sort of behaviour limits your life chances.

And of course some of them have turned being a "sophisticated" creep into an art form (the yoga teacher who leaves his wife for a younger trainee and claims to have found a spiritual connection with her, the middle-aged executive who goes out a lot with the women in the admin pool but treats them as 'one of the lads'). They're pretty much all capable of it. Some of them have just learned very plausible ways to cover it up.

The only thing I think which has the potential to really change them deep down is having daughters. My ex, who was a proper unreconstruced chauvinist, has radically modified his approach to the idea of female enpowerment since having a daughter.

It's always to some extent about self-interest with men. The only way you can really change it is to get across that there are negative consequences for them in behaving like a creep.

@PegasusReturns

As another poster put it the veneer of civilisation is very thin with many men.

I started my career at the bar. 99% of male barristers I worked with were creeps. Outwardly oh they were very respectable with their courteous chivalry and naice lives. But god good the vast majority were pigs.

Almost without exception they had mistresses; propositioned the pupils; laughed at rape jokes; judged all the women on fuckability; groped arses; sent dick pics or some combination thereof.

Of course they would never yell out of a car at a women, but would they manhandle her in a bar sure. Fortunately it prepared me really well for a side step into politics where I can tell you it was absolutely standard.

Agree. I started my career IN a bar, in a nice area where most of the customers were professional family men. The way they behaved had to be seen to be believed. We hated collecting glasses because of the groping.They never bothered hiding it from us, as being bar staff we didn't matter.

@LuckyAmy1986

Just because we might have a 'nice man; as husband father etc, does not mean he doesnt 'expresses' himself online

So true. And even if they’re not saying if, they’re thinking it!

The thing is we can't police or supervise all their online actions and even less so their thoughts. So we base our "assessment " on what we see,hear,witness.

My assessment of OH as a" nice"guy or not was based mainly on two things besides the usual day to day stuff.

1.he started an "escape fund" for me when I first moved in and I was in a very vulnerable position. He wanted me to stay because I wanted to, not because I had to.

2.his relationship with his exes. Very amicable , one (and her husband) trusted him to babysit their small daughters, they stayed friends for years after the breakup and she's in fact out daughter's godmother. He also stayed friends with his ex wife, we helped her move and decorate her new flat etc. Genuine good feelings and friendship towards him.

Is he a leech behind closed doors? I have no fucking idea, but the same can be said about every man. Unless we stay single we can never guarantee we're not with a creep, but certain things (and everyone has a different list) makes it less likely.

@Kanaloa

It is possible that the women on this thread saying their husbands aren’t creeps are deluded - but there are people openly saying they tolerate it, including a woman whose husband makes ‘dodgy jokes’ about the sexual availability of teenagers. I mean, why would our husbands bother hiding it from us when there are women who will allow it?

Because you don't need to hide something from someone who tolerates it in the same way you do from someone who strongly disapproves?

I do think vast majority of men feel it’s their role to charm women, that their opinion on what they look like is welcome and flattering, that just their attention is wanted and welcome

Yet women don’t behave this way (or very very few)

I never comment on a stranger on how they look, what mood their appear to be in I don’t feel it’s my place to

Basically every man I know apart from my partner.
My partner is a feminist and has also raised money for LGBTQ+ charities despite being made fun of for it by every guy he knows. But I know plenty of other creepy men/boys that are so gross. Including his business partners who used to sleep with prostitutes regularly behind their wives backs.