Letchy fucking men

[ineedsun]

I don’t think IABU but I’m due on so might be over reacting.

I wore shorts today because it’s warm here, not proper short, shorts, probably two or three inches above the knee, I walked somewhere - about 3 mile round trip. I’m just fed up of letchy men, I can ignore staring, and someone smiling and saying hello is friendly and nice but people slowing down to comment or make the sort of noise you make to call an animal. What the fuck is wrong with them. I felt genuinely intimidated at one point and I’m a nigh on 50year old grandmother, I changed my intended route on the way back because I felt too scared to walk along a footpath. I hate to think how teenage girls feel and what their experience is.

Perhaps naively I thought the world had moved on.

@ViewFromHalfway

I've lived in quite a few different places in England and Scotland and had it everywhere to some extent but the amount definitely has varied.

The worst was when I was a student in Glasgow. I didn't drive and avoided public transport so I walked a LOT and during the Summer when I was more likely to be in dresses etc. and there were more people out and about it was sometimes daily and certainly at least weekly.

Second worst was probably outskirts of London when I used to walk my eldest to and from school.

I'm currently just outside a Scottish village and haven't had much here at all. Like someone else pointed out, when everyone knows everyone I think the men are less likely to behave like that because there's a much higher chance of someone recognising them and making trouble for them so it's not worth it. Plus, being more rural I tend to drive a lot more so there's just less opportunity (and the fact I'm now in my mid-thirties might also play a part).

I don't think its age or geographical location. I think you're right when you say its opportunity. It's purely down to the number of men you encounter in your day to day life and the amount of time you spend out and about without a male with you.

I hoped the world had moved on too but it seems it hasn't.
From being a preteen until I got ugly and fat, I had to put up with disgusting, letchy men. Absolutely disgusting things were said to me, I was frequently offered money for sexual favours, groped, sexually assaulted etc. I really fear for my daughter.

My DP works in an area where men seem to think they're god's gift. A supposedly 'sexy' job that is anything but in reality. Some of the men he works with constantly catcall women, regularly including young schoolgirls in uniform. It disgusts my DP and despite reporting them numerous times, NOTHING has been done to address their behaviour. He doesn't think it ever will, despite it being specified in their annual review that they need to tackle the 'lad culture'. It grinds him down working with these pricks and I've had to talk him out of quitting a few times.

One thing that gives me hope is after working for years of putting up with the above behaviour in my job, I now work with a group of youngish lads that are incredibly respectful to women. I really hope this is the start of a change, but I'm starting to doubt it after witnessing recent teenage behaviour towards women.

I would hope that a man who chooses to participate in a forum whose large userbase is almost entirely female, and in a thread about street harassment, would be doing it at least in part because he truly hopes to listen and learn from what women say about it.

I would hope.

@DrSbaitso

I would hope that a man who chooses to participate in a forum whose large userbase is almost entirely female, and in a thread about street harassment, would be doing it at least in part because he truly hopes to listen and learn from what women say about it.

I would hope.

I think if that were the case they would be more likely to stay quiet and actually listen, rather than centering themselves in the issue.

I'm nearly 40 and random men have been gross form about the age of 12.

I've been flashed at, whistled, heckled, told to smile, asked for number, groped, hand up my skirt, held up against a wall and forcibly snogged, long letchy stares and half smiles that make you feel disgusting, told I look like "I know how to have fun", told I "must love it" as I have 4 children etc

I hate going out where you are expected to get dressed up and often get asked by others why I opt to go more casual. I hate getting dressed up as it makes the situation worse.

I've put weight on over lockdown which as uncomfortable as I am about that, it's also a bit of a blessing as I get less 'attention'.

I know how it makes me feel and how I will change plans/routes/outfits/situations etc to minimise stuff happening and I am beginning to fear for DD who is 12 and I see it happening to her.

@DrSbaitso

I would hope that a man who chooses to participate in a forum whose large userbase is almost entirely female, and in a thread about street harassment, would be doing it at least in part because he truly hopes to listen and learn from what women say about it.

I would hope.

Not much chance of that. His sole contribution is that he is butthurt at people calling out male harassment and male violence.

This makes him part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I’ve had it since I was 12 . Flashed at by a man in a van whilst I was out riding my pony and asked if I’d ‘ like a ride on this ‘. - I didn’t , but he was reported , arrested and convicted .. and it turned out he’d done it at least 4 times before . At 17 when riding exercise on racehorses in nice middle class Epsom , by nice middle class men in nice middle class cars , who would get as close as they could , but only to the female riders and then shout suggestive crap . Patted on the arm and called sweetheart by several drivers stopped as part of my work ( police officer ) including one prize who suggested that we could ‘come to some arrangement ‘ about his traffic offences .. called a frigid bitch at 6am whilst walking to work in a ski jacket aged 40 something because I didn’t simper and smile when they tooted their horn at me. At 6am . In January .

But what really gave me the rage some months ago , and I’ve mentioned it before , was what happened to my daughter. She’s 16 , tall and willowy , and currently training for her army fitness test and has to run something like 1.6km in 11 minutes or so . Her being her , she wants to aim for the higher level and has been training like a demon , so to work out the distance , I drive from our house down a very quiet country lane and stop at the 1.6km point so she knows where she needs to get to . So there I am waiting for her , and as she comes round the corner , I realise that she’s being followed by three guys in a van , shouting ‘Nice arse ‘, trying to slow her down , grab her arm , etc. She’s trying to ignore them but they won’t leave them alone . I’ve never been so fucking angry in my life . I jumped in the car , flew down the lane , got her behind me and then went nose to nose with the van , before jumping out and demanding to know what the fuck they were doing menacing a teenage girl . I was properly raging . And then I realise that one of the guys trying to hide away is actually the father of one of her friends . Whose response was “ I didn’t recognise her “ Well no mate , that was because you were too busy ogling her bum to look at her face ! And as if it would be ok if you didn’t know her ! What the fuck ?

We’ve not seen him since.

@BillMasen
Really doesn’t realise what a twat he is.

I was 13 years old the first time a much older man commented on the size of my breasts. I'm 56 now and a few weeks ago 2 guys in a white van shouted something out the window as I walked down the road wearing a mid thigh shift dress in the hot weather.

In between it's been years of being aware of the male gaze, crude comments and unwanted touching and far worse. Just a few memories:

• at 14 being told I was 'jailbait' in my school uniform by some late '20's guys
• at 15 with a friend being kerb crawled home from school by 3 guys making really lewd suggestions. Hung around outside the house until her mum chased them off with threats of calling the cops.
• at 20 being followed home at night from my waitressing job by a man walking close behind, keeping pace as I sped up or slowed down & crossing the road whenever I did. I was scared.
• when waitressing, having (usually drunk) male customers touch our bodies, put their hands up our skirts or try to pull us to sit on their laps
• years of being rubbed up against and groped by men in a crowded pub, the bus or tube, anywhere busy
• in my 30's, a trendy well dressed Italian man man stroking his erect penis through his skinny jeans in an in an empty train carriage, whilst trying to catch my eye (I moved, he laughed as I left)
• A man getting into a Porsche looking me up and down and asking if I 'needed a ride'
• in my 40's being cat-called by builders as I walked to the tube each morning, to the point I walked the long way for weeks to avoid them

As for is it more common in London or a large city - maybe but only because here are more people, more traffic and it's more anonymous. Nor is about how poor vs posh a place is. I've had stuff happen when visiting 'nice' Cotswold villages and rural Scotland, to name a few. The Porsche example was in one of the most expensive, posh streets/suburbs in London. Those younger experiences were in a different country and well before on-line porn was a thing. Just typing this, I realise how relentless itwas - maybe a bit better now I am over 50 but not stopping.

[quote thedancingbear]@BillMasen I guess it must be for women to fix then.

slow handclap[/quote]
Where did I say that?
Ffs

Yes I can call it out if I see if my friends or family but I’m not sure I like being told to sort it out.

So it comes down to men 'not liking' to be told uncomfortable truths? If you don't think men should sort it out, who should? Women? Why? Besides, I'm not sure what you think you' as an individual are being told to actually do in order to sort it out, beyond calling it out when you see it.

I believe the best thing to do is name and shame them on social media.
Let their employer know who they are. Employers care about their image they might not give a shit about women and children, but they do care about their image and effect this has on profits.
plominoagain and that proves my point completely.
These men are somebody's son/husband/father/brother/grandad. In your case I absolutely would call this man out In front of his family. I really would, I would wait until you saw him with his family and say "Oh Bill it's you, the last time I saw you you were following my daughter in your mates van, shouting sexual abuse at her remember? You followed her down the lane as she was out running at 6am last Tuesday, I had to storm over to the van and couldn't believe it was you who was pereving at a child the same age as your own child. Don't bother coming to any social events again as I'm letting all the parents know exactly what you are. "
Fuck his feelings. I bet his wife has no idea what he gets up to, she has a right to know.

@plominoagain - Jesus that's awful about your daughter. I'd be bloody tempted to tell his wife. It's bad enough handling this sort of thing when an adult but at her age... so vile.

@plominoagain

I’ve had it since I was 12 . Flashed at by a man in a van whilst I was out riding my pony and asked if I’d ‘ like a ride on this ‘. - I didn’t , but he was reported , arrested and convicted .. and it turned out he’d done it at least 4 times before . At 17 when riding exercise on racehorses in nice middle class Epsom , by nice middle class men in nice middle class cars , who would get as close as they could , but only to the female riders and then shout suggestive crap . Patted on the arm and called sweetheart by several drivers stopped as part of my work ( police officer ) including one prize who suggested that we could ‘come to some arrangement ‘ about his traffic offences .. called a frigid bitch at 6am whilst walking to work in a ski jacket aged 40 something because I didn’t simper and smile when they tooted their horn at me. At 6am . In January .

But what really gave me the rage some months ago , and I’ve mentioned it before , was what happened to my daughter. She’s 16 , tall and willowy , and currently training for her army fitness test and has to run something like 1.6km in 11 minutes or so . Her being her , she wants to aim for the higher level and has been training like a demon , so to work out the distance , I drive from our house down a very quiet country lane and stop at the 1.6km point so she knows where she needs to get to . So there I am waiting for her , and as she comes round the corner , I realise that she’s being followed by three guys in a van , shouting ‘Nice arse ‘, trying to slow her down , grab her arm , etc. She’s trying to ignore them but they won’t leave them alone . I’ve never been so fucking angry in my life . I jumped in the car , flew down the lane , got her behind me and then went nose to nose with the van , before jumping out and demanding to know what the fuck they were doing menacing a teenage girl . I was properly raging . And then I realise that one of the guys trying to hide away is actually the father of one of her friends . Whose response was “ I didn’t recognise her “ Well no mate , that was because you were too busy ogling her bum to look at her face ! And as if it would be ok if you didn’t know her ! What the fuck ?

We’ve not seen him since.

Well done for confronting them! Did you think about telling the police / his wife?

@DrSbaitso

Yes I can call it out if I see if my friends or family but I’m not sure I like being told to sort it out

Well I don't like being told to choke on a dick or that my back doors need smashing in.

Bill, obviously you're not personally responsible for this. But these slimebags will listen to you, and they won't listen to us. They won't stop because we hate it, if that mattered to them then thus wouldn't happen. They will stop if men hate it, if men make it clear that it's craven and uncanny, if men don't accept it.

I like that even less than you do, trust me, but it's true.

Can you help us?

I don’t think they’ll listen to me. I’m a short middle aged middle class bloke who has no friends family or colleagues like that. I have little to no influence over the scum bags unfortunately

Those men are responsible for their actions. Their family and friends can and should help

I’ll do my bit with my friends if needed, with raising my kids.

@NiceGerbil

And also bill.

If you don't want to do anything that's fine. It's normal.

Why come on a thread with all these horrible things that have happened to tell everyone how you feel about it. And how you feel is hard done by.

That’s not my intention. I do see how bad it is, I said that. I am supportive

One poster said it was the responsibility of other men to sort this, I thought that’s wasn’t correct.

I also agree 100% with the poster who said the level of abuse you get is tied to the amount of time you spend amongst men and if you are in a man's presense.
I feel so much safer in my car , never happens then. Although I do get men ( and it is ALWAYS men) driving aggressively towards me, trying to push in in front of men etc. Well it doesn't get them anywhere because I never, ever let these rude arseholes push in. I just press my brakes give them the finger and tell them to fucking wait and queue like the rest of us.

I’m a short middle aged middle class bloke who has no friends family or colleagues like that.

Bullshit.

I wrote on my FB the other day about a bloke near my daughters house saying “nice tits” to me in broad daylight.

Another female FB friend says I should be glad of the compliment, another couple of FB friends asked her if she was joking and I later saw that she had deleted me, am not that bothered as was asking sick of her conspiracy theories about the pandemic and anti vaccine posts, so she did me a favour.

@gamerchick

Kind of Why am I responsible for the actions of men I don’t know, don’t agree with, probably don’t like and certainly don’t support?

Yes I can call it out if I see if my friends or family but I’m not sure I like being told to sort it out

I’m white and I’m not responsible for racists

Every time you post, you can properly tell you're a typical dude. No matter how enlightened you think you may be.

I'll bet you've ignored this shit with family and friends far more than you've 'called it out' though. I'd put money on it.

You’d lose I have no family or friends who behave like that and I wouldn’t accept it. People surround themselves with people like them, so I don’t move in those circles either personally or professionally

I have never heard or seen anything like this from anyone I know. That doesn’t mean I’m denying it exists, far from it, but your reading of me is off

@DrSbaitso

I would hope that a man who chooses to participate in a forum whose large userbase is almost entirely female, and in a thread about street harassment, would be doing it at least in part because he truly hopes to listen and learn from what women say about it.

I would hope.

Fair, I’m listening What can I do?

One poster said it was the responsibility of other men to sort this, I thought that’s wasn’t correct.

They won't listen to us. They will listen to you. What would you have us do in a reversed situation?

Are you aware that you inhabit a completely different world to us?

Bills just another man who says it’s not his responsibility but feels the need to come on a thread of women sharing experiences to correct us. All the while centering himself.

@billmasen I think you're being given a bit of a hard time here. I think I understand what you're trying to say. As an individual you're just as powerless as each woman on here to do anything about this.

It's men as a class of people that need to fix this. They're responsible for this. And for the vast majority of actual violence and sexual assaults. Unfortunately, as a class of people I just don't think it matters enough to them to bother doing anything about it.

@thedancingbear

I’m a short middle aged middle class bloke who has no friends family or colleagues like that.

Bullshit.

It’s true I know I’m getting a kicking. Partially fair as I may have been a bit grumpy, but partially unfair as the point is I can see how bad it is but feel Powerless to help. It’s not in my sphere of influence and I took exception to one poster. I apologise for that