Why is UK so child unfriendly?

[bezabez]

Hi! I am foreign person living in the UK for the past 15 years.

I have noticed that the attitudes towards children are really strange in this country. Generally kids aren't accepted to be kids. They are expected to be quiet (ish) if out and about eg in a restaurant or a cafe, women don't breastfeed often in public (UK has the lowest rate of breastfeeding in the world) and they are expected 'to do as you're told' - that's a weird expression in itself tbh and to behave and never show a wild side. If on a train or other public spaces people tend not to engage with them even with babies (where I'm from there would be talking and smiling and general admirations) or tthey make faces, huffing and puffing etc if the children 'misbehave'.

Also parents complain A LOT about having children, sometimes as a form of a banter as these are socially acceptable jokes. Especially during the holidays.

On top of that there aren't many affordable childcare options or things like holiday camps and clubs (I know they exist in bigger cities sometimes but it isn't the same).

Overall it's no place for young people!

Does it come from the Victorian 'kids are to be seen not heard' thing?

Again where I'm from kids are celebrated as the future here they are mostly treated as inconvenience.

The uk is fantastic for kids!

I spent a holiday in Spain when the kids were young. It was 50/50 whether the restaurant ever had a high chair, there was one public baby change in the whole town and you couldn't put the child down to crawl/wobbly walk/sit anywhere cause all the floors/outdoor spaces were marble/tile etc and they'd have cracked their head open if they fell.

I dont see teaching children behaving at restaurants as a bad thing at all. I go somewhere where there is a proper mix of nationalities, if theres a child running around in a restaurant it's never a British child. It's always a "child friendly" nationality whilst the parent looked on indulgently. And yes I knew the nationality because I knew multiple foreign languages and could understand what they were saying.

I'll take access to baby facilities over poorly behaved kids any day of the week.

I think most of the OPs post is smoke and mirrors and what she’s really upset about is someone has called out her poor parenting of her little darlings when they’ve been running around like wild animals and she’s at there doing sweet FA about their behaviour

I think in the UK people tend to take their children to particular restaurants which are known for being child-friendly. If you take your child to another type of restaurant you do get stared at. People in UK expect to pay for peace and quiet. There is very much a tiered system. Perhaps because it’s an overcrowded island exclusivity is at a premium?
I breast fed in UK in public quite a few times when mine were little and I don’t remember getting any dirty looks (other than from my now XH).
I don’t understand OP’s stance on behaviour though. Which other countries encourage children to be noisy and badly behaved? I don’t know of any.

I breast fed and people were very encouraging and cafes etc often brought me extra water and were generally lovely. I’m from the north and live in the south and people talk to my children and I to other children. I don’t let my kids run around in restaurants as I chose to have them, not everyone does/can so no need to inflict poor behaviour on others. We went to pubs with gardens or took them out if they were having a tantrum. I’ve had a few people give me snacks on buses when kids were having a melt down and I was 3 miles from home. However, putting a screen in front of a child without headphones is my pet hate and no one (and I mean no one) should do it.

[quote lifehappened]@Fairyliz lol! Been to every part of London have you? That must have taken some time 🤣🤣🤣[/quote]
@lifehappened
I am very old!

Blitzes

I think most of the OPs post is smoke and mirrors and what she’s really upset about is someone has called out her poor parenting of her little darlings when they’ve been running around like wild animals and she’s at there doing sweet FA about their behaviour“

This.

@Blitzes

I think you're right.

But it's not her bad parenting it's the fault of the WHOLE COUNTRY!

About the restaurant etc it's exactly this attitude I'm talking about- they are expected to behave to be convenient to others
This is the case in lots of countries. Which country are you from?

@bezabez

About the restaurant etc it's exactly this attitude I'm talking about- they are expected to behave to be convenient to others. Yes it's important to teach them respect and table manners but it's the adults responses that I don't get, surely as an adult you know that children are they own people with their own personalities, emotions etc so won't always behave to adult standards!

THERE IS PLENTY OF JUDGMENT BUT NO HELP.

Even when you're flying there will be people complaining about babies crying. Yes it isn't pleasant to listen to but I'm sure it's even worse for the parents.

IMO they are expected to be mini adults and not really children.

Like I said, I don't mind kids making a noise but don't want to listen to a tantrum? I've been in childcare in here and several places abroad and it has been a similar attitude there. I can't believe that you think it's OK for a kid to have a tantrum in a restaurant.

Childcare could be cheaper but I think places are child friendly. There are lots of menus, high chairs, baby changes etc. There are loads of places to go. I remember when we were having a meal out and one of us was having to cuddle our youngest a lady offered to hold her while we ate so the help does happen.

But I would say some countries are extra friendly to kids. When we went to turkey and my daughter was 2 she was treated like a rock star. She had the best time.

It's interesting that's your experience. I find the UK very child friendly and actually sometimes to the point that we over-indulge our children and put people with children on a bit of a pedestal. I've definitely seen children fussed over out in public places and I think that's lovely.

I don't however think it's OK for children to be allowed to run around screaming at restaurants and doctor's waiting rooms etc. Boundaries are important and children do need to grow up to be a part of our society, and respectful of others, so they need to know they are not the centre of the world. Those are certainly things I would try to instil in my children, anyway.

THERE IS PLENTY OF JUDGMENT BUT NO HELP
PLENTY OF JUDGEMENT FROM YOU ABOUT UK PEOPLE.

I've just been reminded of when I was eating at a restaurant in Paris. A toddler was running around and his parents were roundly told off by a waiter because he nearly tripped over the child whilst carrying plates of food.

So it's not just here where children have to behave and not just because people don't like children. It's basic sense and health and safety!

Not my experience. 3 people in Sainsbury's stopped us to talk to toddler DS the other evening. I breastfed in public for over a year.

I agree with the poster who said if you go to a theme park abroad (in my case Port Aventura) the kids are pushing in, shoving and yelling over each other. It is not a bad thing to stop kids running around restaurants, as any waiting staff carrying plates will tell you!

@Theluggage15

Where can’t you take a young baby in the U.K. Karma?

When DC2 was born in the UK i was very naive and thought that a breastfed baby in a sling could go anywhere, as his brother did when he was a baby. Breastfed babies in slings don’t take up much room, they generally are asleep or awake and quiet, and if they start to murmur it’s easy to fix by feeding them. So DC1 went to the best restaurants, bars in the evening, cinema, travelled around the country etc.

So the first time I took DC2 to a half decent restaurant in London (good, local restaurant not Michelin starred or anything), the staff were clearly put. There were noises about not expecting a baby, not having room for a baby (I was genuinely confused at that point as he was in a sling) and made that point so they let me bring him in. He was fine throughout the meal but it put me off taking him to dinner or out for drinks like I had done for his brother. Usually I phoned ahead and explained and more than one place just said no babies.

@Fairyliz you obvs havnt been to the part of London I live in which is very child friendly. And friendly in general. Saying it must be London is very narrow minded! There are miserable parts and miserable people of course, same as when I lived up North.

It's because you're brilliant and we're all shit

THERE IS PLENTY OF JUDGMENT BUT NO HELP

What help does a parent with a child running round in a restaurant need? Generally it's not polite to tell other people's children off in a restaurant even if it is sometimes necessary

It probably depends where you are, I imagine. I breastfeed in public all the time and often see other women do it. All my close friends breastfed and used cloth nappies, whereas in antenatal class by 12 months I was the only one still breastfeeding so agree rates are quite poor.

I never feel judged when my toddler is playing up but with kids we stick to cafes/lunch service. On a child free night I'm not sure I'd want someone screaming next to me in an upscale restaurant at 8.30pm!

I'm in Northern Ireland, I don't remember a different attitude in the home counties town I'm from either but I don't think the UK is homogeneous even if it's small.

I BF my two in the late 70s and early 80s and never had a negative comment. I was always reasonably discreet about it though.

I don’t see the U.K. as child un-friendly now, especially not since taking small Gdcs out and about quite a bit over the holidays. In particular a member of staff on the HMS Victory in Portsmouth was extremely helpful recently when Gds (5) announced that he needed a wee - and that meant very soon.

Some of any negative attitude may well come from the fact that a significant minority of parents seem to think that their children must be allowed to behave exactly as they like wherever they happen to be, including screaming, running riot, climbing on furniture, etc., in places where it’s just not appropriate. Not to mention the child I saw gleefully and quite deliberately trampling over a bed of scillas in Kew Gardens, while the parents looked on fondly and said not a word.

How interesting. I'm native to England so it's true I have nothing to compare to. My DC are young and always get lots of friendly attention, smiles and interaction from people. I live in the South East.

I do feel very responsible for mitigating naughty behaviour in public but not loud behaviour. It's interesting to learn that other countries have this view! Perhaps it's because we don't really have a restaurant eating culture in the UK, as in it's not a frequent event for lots of people with DC, so the behaviour is different?

@Blitzes

I think most of the OPs post is smoke and mirrors and what she’s really upset about is someone has called out her poor parenting of her little darlings when they’ve been running around like wild animals and she’s at there doing sweet FA about their behaviour

I imagine so too. I certainly don't recognise the uk she describes and I'm in the south east.

Plenty of people talk to my DC when we go to the shops, restaurants, run errands etc.

I would expect a child (who is old enough) to have been taught there is a time and a place

They can run riot in a park, on the beach, their own garden, etc etc

They must not in a restaurant or cafe or or shops or where their behaviour would be a nuisance or disturb others enjoyment.

That's just good parenting not being child unfriendly

Op do you think this because we ask our children to go to bed at a reasonable hour? Because our children have to be well rested to be able to go to school early the next morning?

I think the U.K. is very child friendly. Go to any museum, gallery, they have child trails, interactive this and that. Much more than other countries. Restaurants have high chairs and child menus. And people chat with and over babies and toddlers all the time. I’m in London and had a random long chat with an unknown toddler and grandmother just yesterday.