Why is UK so child unfriendly?

[bezabez]

Hi! I am foreign person living in the UK for the past 15 years.

I have noticed that the attitudes towards children are really strange in this country. Generally kids aren't accepted to be kids. They are expected to be quiet (ish) if out and about eg in a restaurant or a cafe, women don't breastfeed often in public (UK has the lowest rate of breastfeeding in the world) and they are expected 'to do as you're told' - that's a weird expression in itself tbh and to behave and never show a wild side. If on a train or other public spaces people tend not to engage with them even with babies (where I'm from there would be talking and smiling and general admirations) or tthey make faces, huffing and puffing etc if the children 'misbehave'.

Also parents complain A LOT about having children, sometimes as a form of a banter as these are socially acceptable jokes. Especially during the holidays.

On top of that there aren't many affordable childcare options or things like holiday camps and clubs (I know they exist in bigger cities sometimes but it isn't the same).

Overall it's no place for young people!

Does it come from the Victorian 'kids are to be seen not heard' thing?

Again where I'm from kids are celebrated as the future here they are mostly treated as inconvenience.

Ps I've lived in other countries and multiple cities including when my babies were born

I’ve found France to be more non child friendly than the U.K. in my experience. I’ve been many times as I have friends there and it’s common for parents to regularly shush their children as they are expected to be quiet in public. It doesn’t mean they don’t like children though, it’s just a different culture.

I can guarantee most people here love their children just like in every country in the world. Our culture is different to the one you were brought up in. That’s all. How are the mothers treated in your home country? Are they expected to do everything to provide this happy child friendly experience?

Am laughing at PPs rushing on to claim the OP must be talking about the South because everyone loves children up North.

I’ve been a nanny to various children in various countries for 12 years and don’t really get what you’re talking about in regards to the U.K.

Why don’t you come back and explain how things are so different where you are from OP?

About the restaurant etc it's exactly this attitude I'm talking about- they are expected to behave to be convenient to others. Yes it's important to teach them respect and table manners but it's the adults responses that I don't get, surely as an adult you know that children are they own people with their own personalities, emotions etc so won't always behave to adult standards!

THERE IS PLENTY OF JUDGMENT BUT NO HELP.

Even when you're flying there will be people complaining about babies crying. Yes it isn't pleasant to listen to but I'm sure it's even worse for the parents.

IMO they are expected to be mini adults and not really children.

We teach children to behave respectfully and consider others in public places so not to impact the lives of strangers. Not everyone likes noise, shouting and disorder.

Really? I've lived in three countries and never noticed that the UK is particularly unfriendly to children.

Where are you from?

I went to a European country (shall remain nameless) and was absolutely gobsmacked at children's behaviour. It's very evident at theme parks. Whilst the British children queued patiently other children would barge in and their parents even encouraged them to push ahead in queues. In another European country I've seen the children absolutely spoilt rotten with no manners. I am mixed heritage and in my motherland again the children have different manners/behaviours, some are better than the British children and some parts I would say are not as good.

Also some people just do not like children, the same as some people don't like animals etc. If I'm on a train home from work I just want to relax and switch off, excuse me if I don't feel the urge to coo over a stranger's baby.

I've seen some appalling behaviour from children and their entitled parents, including a child whacking an unknown female passenger across the head with their teddy on a flight...continuously. So excuse me if I don't bend over backwards to admire the child ruining the atmosphere in a restaurant when trying to have a nice meal, or the child who was already sat in my assigned expensive Eurostar seat (before I'd boarded) and left food and mess all in it before moving to their assigned seat.

This post reeks of entitlement, sorry OP.

@BiggerBoat1

What is wrong with children learning how to behave?

I think people in this country love to see children running around in a playground, at the beach, in the countryside etc, but don't want to see that behaviour in a restaurant or cafe. I don't understand how that is a problem.

I really disagree about lack of engagement with children, but maybe your experience is different.

All of this ☝️

Aside from anything else, children running around in a cafe/restaurant isn't very safe! I have a toddler, and most places we go someone will interact with her in some way

I completely disagree, I've lived in several European countries and find them quite similar overall in attitude to children. There are some differences of course but I wouldn't say they were especially better/worse. People seem to fuss over cute babies wherever you are.

You think random adults who are out trying to enjoy a nice meal in a restaurant should go over and offer to HELP parents of children behaving badly?

Haha, I can imagine how that would go down with the kind of parents/children you’re talking about.

YANBU but this is normal for people in the UK so the responses you get will reflect that.

DS1 was born abroad and we lived there until he was six months. You could literally take a baby anywhere. The only place he was denied entry was my office when I took him into work and my boss went ballistic when he found out that security wouldn’t let him go in.

Generally breastfeeding in public was normal and I’d see people doing it everywhere but if you did want somewhere private, a staff member would always find something suitable. I remember being in the queue at the bank and the bank clerk noticed he needed a feed. She threw some men out of an internal meeting so that I could use the room while she sorted my paperwork. Similar things happened elsewhere.

The flip side was that there wasn’t much specifically for children to do as children went everywhere with adults. So very few play areas, no soft play or toddler groups etc.

Same with breastfeeding. Yes I'm rates are lower but it's normal to see mums BFing out and about. Very different from other countries. Yes rates here aren't great for longer term feeding, but it is accepted in public

Perhaps some drop for that reason, @drpet49, but apparently 81% of women initiate breastfeeding, but 17% at three months.

Does seem to suggest something is going a bit wrong with early support, which tallies with my own experiences.

The U.K. is very child friendly, no idea what you’re talking about, perhaps you haven’t travelled much. The people who complain about the U.K. not being child friendly are the ones who let their children behave badly.

I work with young children and this is not my experience at all..apart from childcare expense (which admittedly is expensive, but I've got to pay my bills too!) But would be nice for parents to have more help.
Other than that I don't see your points at all.

Everywhere I go, people chat to the babies/ kids, I think we are, on the whole, a friendly bunch in the UK. I don't think it's about kids making a noise being seen as misbehaving, more just modelling behaviours in certain situations. I don't think people mind children making a noise in a restaurant but a full blown screaming tantrum? Nah. We don't pay money for a meal out to be spoilt by someone else's child. It's just respectful to take the child away from the table until they calm down.
As for parents jokingly complaining about having kids? Parenting is hard, isn't it? Kids can be mentally draining. It doesn't change their love for their children. By making jokes about the children it just helps people get through those tough days. I think it's just having a sense of humour.

I don't recognise your description at all.

Open breast feeding very common. Children behave like children everywhere and are tolerated. Strangers talk to other people's children. Everything in the UK is geared towards small children except very expensive restaurants - and that's how it should be!

YANBU.

I've heard this a lot from Spanish friends in the past.

I'm very much a person who is paranoid that people think my kids are bad so it's constantly shhhhhh, be quiet! Sit still! Do as you are told! Stop it!

Expecting them to act like adults.

I was very envious of Spanish people who let their children be children.

When I went to Switzerland I was amazed how much more decorum children were expected to show in public than in the UK so I think its all relative. I don't recognise much of your description like not interacting with your children in the bus etc, I see people doing that a lot. I couldn't take my baby anywhere without someone cooing over her and sometimes when I was struggling I would go out just so this could happen cos I needed a morale boost. 😆
But I think there are large variations on all those things you've said depending on what area and background you're seeing.
I agree that the joking how you can't wait for the kids to get back to school so you can get rid is overdone sometimes, my friends only do this when they need to let off steam, they don't mean it really and it's balanced out by plenty of positives.

THERE IS PLENTY OF JUDGMENT BUT NO HELP.

Yes that’s exactly it. When people see you’re struggling with your children, they rarely step in and help but there’s plenty of tutting often outright criticism.

Maybe where you live but not in my part of the UK. I feel sorry for you if that's what you feel, you need to love

Bloody hell, your last post is just bizarre
I don't recognise any of it from my experience of being a parent /travelling with children/eating out
Perhaps you need to look at how you parent your children if that's the reaction you are getting

I am on sc here . On the whole people are child friendly. As a holiday town would be pretty dire if they weren't! My dc when small were generally fussed over on the bus .later when able to drive and go to pubs restaurants museums all good. When on hols here generally no problems

If you think it’s ok for your child to run around screaming in a restaurant, there are specific places that cater for that behaviour such as McDonald’s.

If I was in a nice restaurant and you were sat next to me ignoring your children yelling and running around. I would certainly not be cooing over them.

UK has the lowest rate of breastfeeding in the world

It has one of the lowest rates.