How do I get one of THOSE children

[Elmoandbert]

What is it that makes a child motivated, busy, sparky, confident...you know, those children that private schools seem to produce. Is it the school or the parenting? Both?

My son is 8 and is lovely most of the time but just comes across as being lazy, bored, unconfident, addicted to screens, like a teenager in many ways,the complete opposite of this.

He takes part in a few extracurricular activities but just says how much he hates them. I am at my wits end and feeling like a failure.

I went to a state school (that was, on paper one of those "bog standard comprehensives" that was great at getting kids doing things. They weren't very public school about it in some ways - they had a progressive philosophy, with no uniform, teachers called by first names, lots of freedom for students, etc. but they did a few things that were, I think very public school

1 They hired teachers who had other passions and encouraged and supported them in running clubs for the kids, in some cases making them into pseudo departments. For instance we had someone who'd always wanted to be a farmer who ran a rural studies club that turned into a department all of its own with animals and crops being raised at the school. We had a lot of teachers into outdoor pursuits like climbing and sailing and that morphed from a canoing and climbing club into a curriculum where every child in the school got four terms of trying out outdoor pursuits instead of regular sports for PE. Along with a bunch of clubs you could go to as well. We had lots of Duke of Edinburgh award holders and several semi-famous mountaineers/explorers. We had lots and lots of really good clubs we could go to for free. I think that may have died out a little nowadays in the state sector for a whole variety of reasons but I think it was critical to making our experience of school really rich.

2 ) We did lots of performance. Plays, reviews, talks and lectures, sports demonstrations, rock shows, concerts, poetry slams, etc.

@Recessed

The reality is that some kids do well, some not so well, and it has very little to do with parenting, or schools, or screen time !

I think it's disengenuous to say parenting has very little to do with a child's outcome - or why would anyone bother putting effort into parenting? There's no guarantees of course but on the whole of course parenting makes a huge difference.

It is indeed. Of course all children have the capacity to do well...some are academic, some aren't. "Doing well" isn't always attending a top uni and getting a job in finance.

As I mentioned, my very bright 17 year old (I said she was 16 earlier but she's recently turned 17) has left school because she just couldn't stand it...and has started a small business.

I encourage her in every way possible and that includes paying for her to have driving lessons so she can deliver her products more easily.

My friend's son, another not too academic kid but one with a decent work ethic has been working full time for a year now and has saved a tonne of money because his Mum isn't charging him board. His ambition is to own a home and then to move on to investing in property.

Kids can achieve a lot with a parent's support.

It's probably a lot to do with a lot of children who are now taken up with inside stuff, as in gaming and social media stuff, and phones etc. I know a lot of children do like playing some sports though. My two children were born in the 70's, so no techno stuff, and they were always out and about and being very active with various things that they were interested in.

My sibling and I were like this and the one thing that I often think about is that I was surrounded by adults more than other children. Not as a caregiver, but as friends to talk to freely, ask questions, be curious. I didn't view adults as people to speak to only if it were a teacher or your friend's mum - I viewed them as interesting people with things to say, and the ones in my life treated me the same, with equal respect, giving me time to speak and showing interest in what I had to say.

I've now met other people who were raised similarly and it seems to be a common theme: the more adults who treated us with respect and not like naughty kids, the more confident and sparky we were in engaging with other areas of life.

Given this is something that is promoted in private schools (being a conversationalist, being prompted to ask interesting questions and speak freely), I'm willing to bank that it's down to this.

You can only do so much. People are who the are, even as children.

You can encourage, cajole, even force them to do whatever things you think they should be doing, but even if you manage to get them to placate you, they may only be going through the motions. Sometimes that might be enough, but ultimately, if they're not a bright spark personality, that's simply not who they are. Things may improve when they're a bit older, of course. Maturity can't easily be hurried-along.

Eh. I was a sparky, motivated chid/teen. You name it, I did it. Every single sports team, band, orchestra, choir, cadets, school play etc etc. My husband was addicted to screens and spent most of his teenage years horizontal. Guess who is the motivated, hard worker with a great work ethic now and guess who can barely drag herself out of bed to do the bare minimum at work (hint: it’s me )

I can name several of those children at my state school- I think it's down to a mix of character and not having their personality squashed at home or school.

@Elmoandbert

What is it that makes a child motivated, busy, sparky, confident...you know, those children that private schools seem to produce. Is it the school or the parenting? Both?

My son is 8 and is lovely most of the time but just comes across as being lazy, bored, unconfident, addicted to screens, like a teenager in many ways,the complete opposite of this.

He takes part in a few extracurricular activities but just says how much he hates them. I am at my wits end and feeling like a failure.

Addicted to screens? You're in charge of that OP because you're the parent and if he has been allowed to become addicted that's your fault. Get that sorted out straight away.

I think the addiction to screens has a lot to do with it.Have you seen The Social Dilemma?
My kids weren't great doers but I let them be, tried to listen to them and really know them. They didn't really like organised activities but had lots of things they were interested in.
I read a book called Free Range Children about homeschooling- I'd recommend it as it shows how children often get immersed in what interests them, if left to their own devices (in the old fashioned sense) then move onto the next thing, and marry up those things as they get older to provide a useful skill set.
Seemed to work out that way with my young adults. I also tried to model a work ethic, interest in current affairs, decent relationships etc, and though I was and am far from perfect, they are decent well rounded individuals now.

You are unreasonable for thinking you would get a certain type of child. Children are individuals.

As a secondary teacher in a large deprived school I would say it’s often parental support/interest that can drive a kid. Or sometimes children from very deprived families are striving to change their life-
Often second generation migrant children. Some kids must have an internal drive to achieve as I’m shocked when I meet their parents!

Parental input is a bigger factor than school.

At 8, look at a) what you do with him and b) are you a bright, sparky, motivated person yourself?

When I feel like moaning about my kids I try to think of something to do with them, something to cheer us all up.

Put your foot down re screen time and mean it. It is the only way a child can develop talents and interests that do not involve gaming. The stricter you are around this, the better outcome for your child.

Dunno, I had one of those yet I was a single parent, worked all the time and struggled myself for many years, he certainly didn't go to private school. He's now a fabulous artist and portrait painter with not a worry in the world.
i guess it must be genes or something. Or maybe because there were just the two of us and home was a safe quiet place. Who knows.

I find outdoor time makes a massive difference, especially outdoor sports. Also at 8 you need to control screen time. My ds is 7, 8 in December. Dd is 17. Dd never really been bothered about screens, ds would be on them all day if we were home all day. But we aren't. We have ponies, do watersports, we have a massive allotment with chickens, a dog to walk and if we meet his friends for playdates, it's always outdoors.

Find a sport he enjoys then make him do it for a minimum amount of time. Limit screen time, as soon as the shining, bleeping screen disappears they are more inclined to do something.

We've (adult) friends who were privately educated at well known schools and they're some of the laziest and unmotivated people we know. They have qualities in other areas but nothing you've described. So whilst I think private school plays some part, I think a lot is personality.

Some of it is due to personality, some of it probably down to the screen time tbh. How much time does he spend on screens - is he allowed them whenever he wants or do you limit it? First thing to do is sort the "screen addiction".

Secondly there will be a hobby or activity that he enjoys, he just hasn't found it yet. When you say extracurricular activities is that just stuff that the school offer? Have you tried anything more adventurous - horse riding, water sports, etc? There will be something that gets him going, you just need to help him find it.

It's a mix - some of it is innate, some of it due to family "culture" and some due to peer and school "culture" (kids do spend quite a lot of time there so some is bound to rub off).

Mine (11&9) are somewhere in the middle. Both are involved with team sports and DS also enjoys theatre etc and just got his PADI, DD likes art and textiles and has started sailing. That said, they're very much "jack of all trades" as are DH and I. so possibly unsurprising. They enjoy playing/ participating but don't want to do the repetitive practice to get really good, whereas there is a boy of DS's age who is up in the cricket nets 4 nights a week and it shows- he's extremely good and plays up 2 age groups. That is the separator- the kids that want to be good enough to do the drudgy bits and to not quit when they don't enjoy it for a few months. But that's not for everyone and I'm happy with mine just playing for enjoyment.

Both engaged at school but not "more maths please" kids (they exist, especially in Asia where I live ).

In terms of parenting, I do limit screentime to weekends and Youtube is completely banned because it's such shouty, inane drivel (yes I know there is also some great content on there too but it's not worth wading through the Influencer advert cesspit to find it). I find that screentime is such an instant gratification fix that few things can compete, and when they cant have screens they read more, play more board games, go skateboarding go and call for their friends and just do more stuff that requires more upfront investment but is ultimately more enjoyable.

I think a lot is peer pressure "well Persephone is grade 8/got 10 medals/got a part in a west end production" and that comes from the culture of the school a lot of the time. But a careful balance before they say "well who cares what snotty Persephone does. I'm going to watch 300 episodes of Pokémon instead"

People are different! Our eldest is just like the children you describe, and our youngest is like your son. Same school, brought up the same way, nothing to do with our parenting, they just have different personalities and enjoy different things.

I used to think this about two brothers who had the piano lesson immediately before my sons. They were so confident, chatty cheerful little boys who seemed to do every extracurricular activity going.. The piano teacher gave them notice as she found them cheeky, loud and thought they knew it all. I’ve since heard that she’s not the only one who thinks that. I’ll stick with my unmotivated, miserable but polite kids I think.

I think this is the sort of view that does kids down. There's nothing wrong with children being confident, chatty and cheerful and any adult who finds that hard to deal with and buys into the 'children should be seen but not heard' view isn't someone I would want teaching my children anyway. '

That said, there is a balance. Children need to learn that they are not the centre of the world, not to interrupt or dominate the conversation and to respect and value others. But it is much easier to 'dial down' excessive exuberance than to inspire confidence in a politely apathetic child.

Not everyone can be a sparkling extrovert and that is fine. I find that there is a lot of room in grown-up life for people who quietly and cheerfully get on with things. However confident or quiet your child is, encouraging them to try a range of things to find out where their interests lie and then supporting them in those interests seems a good start to me.

I have one of those kids,He is 30 now and yes it was school that did it. It cost me 100k!!! I will never forget when we had the interviews with the Headmaster and He asked me what I wanted from school I said I want one of those young men at the end.I got one.From a little boy with zero confidence,quiet,timid to a young man confident,inquizzative,charming,.polite the change over 7 years was brilliant. It had to be school because I am no great achiever,I did nothing at school and have always had menial jobs with no focus,I couldnt and not because I didnt love my child but I couldnt bring out what was hidden inside him,I didnt have the skills and knowledge to keep him moving forward,to keep him interested etc so we paid for someone else to do it and I cannot tell you OP what a job they made of it. I will never regret the huge sacrifices we and grandparents made to do this. I will be eternally grateful to school for shaping and molding my son in to what he is today.I can teach my son good manners,kindness and morals at home but out there in the world it wasnt enough and it never will be,They taught him courage,strength,self belief,passion for succeeding and how to challenge led by a conviction that when all goes wrong you remain standing. I sound awfully braggy and I am to a point but above all I knew my weaknesses as a parent and I knew with the best will in the world I needed their expertise. I paid they delivered ,it is unfair it had to be like that but it was and it was done for the right reasons.

I'm in my 70s. I wasn't encouraged or helped to do sport. I didn't particularly help my DCs but they all got good and enjoyed something. Now I think that that is important, 8 is still young, but I remember at times groups of friends going out to play squash, or tennis, or even swimming and diving into the pool. I couldn't do any of that so couldn't join in, it would have greatly helped in friend making.

Mine went to private school. They listened to classical music in the womb, and I read to them from the minute they were born. They are both high achievers; they can both hold a fairly sparky conversation. Both Oxbridge.

However one is alpha and one is beta and that will never change. Their personalities are so different.

All one can do to maximise opportunity is to love ones children absolutely and unconditionally and make time for them.

I'm not sure it's the private school that produces children who appear self assured (dd does but is not confident) but rather the bells and whistles that come with it. The access to conversation, books, music, theatre, sport, travel, etc, which are just there every day.

I think it’s innate sorry. You can only work with the raw materials that you get!