Is she spoilt or am I shit mum?

[ojss21]

I've NC for this but I'm a regular poster.

My teen dd(15) has started to be quite challenging recently, and I we usually have quite a good relationship, but I've been a single mum to her for most of her life and up until 5 months ago she was an only child, so I tend to be lenient with her at times and struggle to determine whether her behaviour is spoilt or if I'm a shit mum (if that makes sense).

Here's some examples of her recent gripes / reasons for being annoyed with me :

1. I "only" gave her £100 cash for her 15th birthday plus a few cheaper things to open like chocolates. The main present was the cash and I've always done this for the past few years given her age as it's easier for her to choose her own stuff, I find. She complained for two reasons- firstly, it's not as much as I spent on her 5 month old sister's new car seat which cost £250 (clearly the baby needed that and it's not really comparable), and secondly because she wanted more things to open on the day (despite £100 cash being her main present and also a stretch for me anyway at the moment with being on maternity leave).

1. We are going away for a few nights this weekend (in the U.K.) and we were originally due to come back on Tuesday. We have extended to Wednesday as we plan to make a detour on the drive back to stay overnight with my sister who is going through a really shitty and scary time at the moment (don't want to go into details but it's health related and potentially very serious). My DD's response at this unexpected detour to her aunty's was "great, that ruins my plans to see my friends on that day as I thought we were coming back the night before. Wish I'd never agreed to come with you now". And off she stropped to her bedroom. This is an aunty who she is very close to, by the way, and is aware of her health complications currently. Dd has also had several days out and sleepovers with her friends this summer hols and I admit it slipped my mind she had planned this outing with them when I arranged to stay away from home an extra night with my sister.

So.... is my DD spoilt, or am I a bad mum for "only" giving her £100 for her birthday and for inadvertently ruining her day out with her mates? This is a genuine question, by the way. I struggle to gain perspective with her sometimes and she makes me feel guilty for my decisions. It's been harder since the baby was born as I feel I'm ploughing so much time and energy into the little one that I'm almost neglecting the eldest, so I do need some outside perspectives!

Thank you.

I don't think she's necessarily upset about the baby. She's upset that she's missing out and the baby is the easy thing to blame, but I wouldn't say she feels pushed out or is acting up because of it. There's not enough information here to suggest that's the case.

She knows she'd normally have more spent on her so is disappointed that this time around she hasn't been as fortunate.
Teenagers also make plans with friends - it's a pretty common occurrence. It doesn't mean she doesnt care about her aunt, she just wish she'd known before making plans.

Cut her some slack, and cut some for yourself too OP!

@SmidgenofaPigeon

OP- I just did a quick google- and I know a bit firsthand too as we need to buy one soon- £250 is NOT one of the cheapest car seats by any stretch

Does it have isofix attached and is it suitable for pre teen age too?

I would say she feels pushed out by the baby and the car seat thing is just a way of her showing it as it allows her to make a direct comparison of what you have spent on the two of them. I think the best thing you can do is acknowledge her feelings and open up a conversation about the impact the baby has on her life. Of course the baby does have a negative impact on her in terms of both money and your attention and it might help to talk about it.

On the aunt thing, I would guess she feels angry that you forgot about her plans and didn't think they were important. Of course supporting the aunt is priority but perhaps it would help to acknowledge that you messed up by not discussing/explaining first?

YANBU. Regarding the car seat, I suspect she is looking for something to complain about.

Regardng the £100, you could tell her to return the £100 and you'll buy some things she might like and wrap them. As PPs have said, you are not wrong and it's not about these events, it's probably about being a teenager, possibly but not certainly with a dose of new baby too.

It's good you are looking at your behaviour but it won't solve things to do contortions to try and accommodate a teen's wishes as they'll often just change to try and give them something to complain about. If you'd bought things for the birthday, she may have said they weren't right and she wanted money.

Good luck with teen and baby, Things should work out in the end.

I can understand why she’s upset at being given less than she’s used to for her birthday, especially as the reason she has less is because of a new baby. If the reason you can’t afford what you would usually spend is because you’re on maternity, your dp should absolutely have covered the cost of your ds birthday. It’s a bit shit of him not to have offered, especially if you covered the whole cost of the car seat.

I can also understand her being upset about the detour. If she were an adult that you’d planned a trip with you wouldn’t think it was ok to change the plan to suit yourself without asking them. A 15 year old with her own life and plans deserves the same respect, regardless of whether it’s for her Auntie or not.

It's the baby. As PPs have said.

You need to try to balance offering her love and support with obviously being busy with the baby.

Side note: as PP have also pointed out, many of us are massive dickheads at 15, but very self absorbed and unaware. This is normal.

It's also normal to be scared of growing up, while desperately wanting it. They want to be cared for completely while claiming independence.

Having that turmoil combined with actually nit being mummy's baby anymore is a perfect storm.

My son has kicked off massively at having cousins as he's not the baby of the family anymore.

My younger sister (at age 27) kicked off massively with me when I was pregnant with my first because she wouldn't be the baby of the family anymore.

So it's understandable that a girl on the cusp of leaving childhood would feel like that.

And wouldn't know how to put it into words, but fire all the insecurities outwards as aggression.

See if you can fit in some mum and daughter time, and if she's not receptive just wait.

Good luck.

On the aunt thing, I would guess she feels angry that you forgot about her plans and didn't think they were important.

I see this. To be honest though, she's made so many plans these summer hols I've genuinely struggled to keep up, especially with the baby's needs being juggled in my mind too every day. She tells me new plans every day - I usually pay most attention to the ones that require either cash or a lift somewhere from me because obviously that's harder to do now with baby. Maybe I've not been listening to her enough recently due to how full my mind is constantly. I'll accept that.

@ineedsun

She’s also 15.

(Before everyone piles on saying NAFYOALT, and their daughter is amazing, they’re not always, but they can be really selfish. As others have said, her nose is also out of joint because of the new baby)

What does NAFYOALT mean?

I can't understand at all why the op is getting a hard time for not buying the cheapest possible car seat! Cheapest is hardly likely to be safest. If the child can fit in it till 12 then it's hardly much per year. £100 is a generous present, you certainly don't need to justify why you didn't give her more than twice that. If she wants more money, she can get a job in a year.

I do think that she is just pushing away as it is a massive life change after so long without a sibling. Keep reminding her that you love her and try to make some time for just the two of you as well.

She's a teenager, with a developing frontal cortex dealing with a lot of change in her life and some scary situations.

I would reccommend you list to the Podcast by Annalisa Barbieri on Teenagers!

"The teenage brain goes through incredible changes during adolescence. This not only explains their behaviour but, knowing what these changes are means you can help support them or - if you are the teenager - might help you understand yourself better. Rachel and I chat about what those neurological changes are and how they manifest. I also spoke to some teenagers who give invaluable insights into how to get the best out of them, what they find challenging about adult behaviour and why they always like to start up difficult conversations when you're already busy doing something else."

podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5hY2FzdC5jb20vcHVibGljL3Nob3dzLzYwOWI5ZTZjOTcyZWY3MjYxOWFmYzUwNg/episode/NjBhYmFmNzVhZTI0MDMwMDFhMGNkODdl?hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwir9uWt5MHyAhXRRUEAHe_yAH4QjrkEegQIAhAI&ep=6

£250 is quite daft for a car seat... they will not be used for 12 years. I can’t think of any child in a car seat at 10 years old that they used as aged 5 months.
15 year old’s will not comprehend how a car seat can cost that much.
She is feeling de-throned after 15 years. In future don’t tell her how much stuff costs. Manage her expectations to value time and experience over money.

@NailsNeedDoing

I can understand why she’s upset at being given less than she’s used to for her birthday, especially as the reason she has less is because of a new baby. If the reason you can’t afford what you would usually spend is because you’re on maternity, your dp should absolutely have covered the cost of your ds birthday. It’s a bit shit of him not to have offered, especially if you covered the whole cost of the car seat.

I can also understand her being upset about the detour. If she were an adult that you’d planned a trip with you wouldn’t think it was ok to change the plan to suit yourself without asking them. A 15 year old with her own life and plans deserves the same respect, regardless of whether it’s for her Auntie or not.

Just to clarify - DP and I jointly covered the cost of the seat. DP didn't refuse to contribute to my DD's birthday money - i just didn't ask him because I don't feel that's his place.

She's had you all to herself for many years and now a baby's come along and disrupted everything.

She's jealous of the baby.

I'm a bit shocked at the remark about her birthday money vs how much you spent on the car seat. That's shows an unhealthy interest in who is getting the most financially out of you. Not to mention comparing apples with pears.

I'd say this is all down to jealousy of the new baby, yes your older DD is being bratty but nothing that hopefully won't come right in time. Just make sure you spend equal amounts for both despite their vastly different needs/wants on presents for birthdays and Christmas.

it is just her age
neither is she spoilt or are you shit

Definitely give her the option of going home by train to meet her friends. My teens would've kicked off about this change of plans too, especially after losing so much time due to lockdown. My teens would also be unhappy with that birthday gift. Everyone's budget is different but with 100 cash I'd be giving other gifts worth 200 plus and that's still just one outfit or trainers. They're expensive. They're would also be a family bbq and dinner in a restaurant. I plan hard for teen birthdays, they take more thought.i think the baby has taken up your time

How much did you give her for her birthday last year? If it was more then in her teenage brain I can understand her feeling hard done by, even though as an adult I can understand spending more on an essential item like a car seat.

I'd just have a gentle chat about money, and how you prioritise essentials for both of them, preferably with a recent example of something she needed. And that you did the same when she was a baby.

I can understand her being annoyed about missing out on the day with her friends. If there's some way to get her home for that I would, whether it's sticking her on a train or seeing your sister another time I would just so she feels she's still a priority.

She's not spoilt and you're not a bad mum, that's unnecessarily emotive language. You've just both had a lot of upheaval.

@Mrstamborineman

£250 is quite daft for a car seat... they will not be used for 12 years. I can’t think of any child in a car seat at 10 years old that they used as aged 5 months. 15 year old’s will not comprehend how a car seat can cost that much. She is feeling de-throned after 15 years. In future don’t tell her how much stuff costs. Manage her expectations to value time and experience over money.

She asked me outright when DP was outside fitting the new seat how much it cost. Of course I wouldn't volunteer this information, why would I? I did think it was an odd question. Then she launched straight into "oh right... £250 on a seat for the baby but I only get £100 for my birthday?!"

It has an isofix base attached, that's what's made it more expensive. It's also suitable for up to 12 years of age so it's the only seat we will need for the youngest

Yes - and as someone in her late 40s I can absolutely see that 1. it's cheaper in the long term not to have to replace the seat when your daughter gets bigger and 2. that with safety items you should usually buy the best you can afford.

But as a 15 year-old there's no way I'd have had that perspective - I'd have seen it in simplistic terms that the amount spent on each child should be equal in order to be fair.

"My DP contributes hugely to the household finances and the baby. I don't expect him however to contribute to my own DD's birthday money"

He should be making up your loss of earnings to the point that your older child loses out.
However I've had three 15 year old DD's and they always find something to complain about. Plan the train journey with her, but she might not have a real objection to going to her Aunt's, she just wants a stick to beat you with.

@Mrstamborineman many 10 years olds still have to use a booster seat under the new laws.

She’s 15 with all that comes with that.
Plus she sees that you have less money due to a new baby, of course she’s stroppy.
She’s had 15 years of being an only child and no matter how well everyone gets on it’s a huge change for her

Be nice but tell her when she's out of order eg the car seat vs £100 birthday gift. I'd take it back with a response like that.

There's only one response that's appropriate to a gift: thank you.

And the detour to see aunt is unbelievable. How selfish can you get?

Yes, I'd say a bit spoilt and selfish. Time for some home truths (but said nicely)

I have raised DS on my own for quite a long time. Your child needs to understand that there is a big difference between "Needs" and "wants".

Your baby needs a £250 car seat, that's a need. She wants an extra £150 to fritter at leisure, that's a want.

You give to each child as they need, nip that selfish complaining on the bud. It is true that you need to show her that she is still as important as her sibling, but this should NOT be done by money allocation.

£100 for her to spend at leisure as at 14 is a very good gift, especially if you are already struggling to afford it.

With regards to her complaining that the pit stop at her aunt's ruins her plans, you can really tell her off for being so unsympathetic. Kids need to learn to be considerate, you don't end up with a considerate kid out of good luck (if you did, it was someone else who taught them to be so).

Maybe I’ve got a chip on my shoulder but some of these teen birthday spends sound a bit much?! Not everyone has the same budget, no need for posters to say ‘well of have spent £300, or of have bought trainers as well!’

I certainly wouldn’t have expected that much spent on me as a teen, maybe more for a ‘big’ birthday like an 18th but a £100 at 15 would have been fine. It’s certainly more than I got.

Just to add - most months my dd will easily have in the region of £80 spending money - a tenner here, 20 quid there, etc. That's not stopped despite being on maternity. So the £100 for her birthday would have been additional last month to the usual amounts of spending money I give her. She's not hard done by. I earn quite a good salary when not on mat leave and for the best part of 15 years she has had most things she's asked for.