To go on holiday without him….?

[PineapplePrincess]

Holiday booked for December. Me, DH and 2DC. Booked pre-pandemic.

Hubby is not vaccinated and country doesn't currently allow unvaccinated people entry. It’s unlikely to change position before we travel.

Option 1 - we go without him.

Option 2 - we abandon the holiday.

Husband is in favour of Option 2.

I’m wondering whether I could manage Option 1. Biggest difficulty other than keeping an eye on both kids in a foreign country, is driving - I’ve never done it outside of the UK and it would be in winter conditions.

Would it be unreasonable for me to consider going without him….?

Sorry OP, but I can't imagine taking one child and leaving the other for such a monumentous, child-orientated holiday of a lifetime experience. I can't believe how much accommodating everyone else has to do for your DH.

Go without him. He has made his choice , he’s an adult - why should the kids miss out?

Go without the selfish prick. His choice not to get vaccinated so he will have to miss out on the luxuries vaccinated people have such as holidays abroad. More fool him really.

Oh and you can manage two kids alone, I manage five alone when DH is at work and I haven’t died yet.

I think it's awful that he's saying to ask the 7 year old. It puts them in a horrible position and I'm sure they'll find it upsetting. Leaving them at home would be cruel, they'll always remember it and it will come up in future conversations and rows for the rest of your life as it's such a monumental holiday.
I feel really sorry for you and position your "D"H has put you in. He sounds controlling and to be frank, he sounds a bit thick.

You must not under any circumstances ask a 7 year old to make that decision.

Why on earth has you husband convinced you that you can't manage your two children on your own?

Do you manage them at home?

Take them, please do not leave one of them at home, that would be unbelievably unkind to both children and completely wrong.

You can do this OP.

One step in front of the other and do it.

Go! It will be amazing. I take mine on hols all the time by myself. It's fine!
I would make a glittery invite that came through the post saying a special invite to see Santa!!!! They will be so excited!
There are so many things you can look up about the place and possible things you might like to do once there. You can plan it and be excited about it together!
If he doesn't wanna be part of that, sad times man but his choice innit. If he dares rain on their parade......

Ps if you had to choose one ... a trip with 7yo old would be magical, 2yo wouldn't have a clue
Under NO circumstances should your 7yo be made to choose!! Thats awful! Just no!
(I would consider leaving 2yo at home if it made it easier for you though)

Yes, I agree, if you did decide that you could only manage one, the 7 year old should be the one to go.

The 2 year old won't appreciate it the way the older child will.

@Buffythechillislayer

Ive not read the whole thread but i just wanted to comment on the driving issue. ive driven in Lapland. Its really easy to drive there as every car is set up for the weather. I drove from rovaniemi airport to Levi and back.

Im also taking both my children there (hopefully) in feb half term without my husband who didnt want to go.

Im in several Lapland facebook groups and if you join them, loads of people will give you hints and tips for Rovaniemi as a lone parent.

Dont let him stop you. Its a fab, fun place to visit and the kids, especially the older one, will love it.

Hurrah for Buffy and the Lapland FB crew!

I think you can do it, possibly with both, certainly with DS1 (agree that DS2 doesn't really know if it's Christmas or Tuesday and won't be missing out much).

I was terrified of going anywhere with my son when he was little in case I screwed something up but have managed Thailand (didn't drive but had a cheap driver, he was 3) and Mexico when he was 6 (didn't drive, cheap buses) and finally Spain where I did drive and it was brilliant, I wish I'd hired more cars!

My top tip for flights is to have a load of 'presents' they can unwrap (colouring books, or non-irritating toys) at various points in the flight and a backup movie downloaded on a device with headphones.

You can do this!

I'm deliberately staying out of the debate on whether your DP is being a butthead.

What a dick

All this upheaval, stress and potential huge financial loss because your husband did two years of a presumably science-based degree and has decided he knows more than the rest of the scientific and medical world.

The arrogance of man never ceases to amaze me.

Quite frankly Im amazed that you are still talking to him!

@PineapplePrincess

Hi guys. Thanks for your posts. I am still here and am still reading.

I think I have decided I’m going, just having to figure out who with and how.

Few clarities to those asking questions:

• DS are 2 and 7, although both have NY birthdays
• we are going for a week in total (Wednesday to Wednesday)
• cabin is an Airbnb with no option to switch to another location
• cabin has a unique arrangement (previously adding to the charm, currently adding to the anxiety) where the sleeping arrangements are separate to the living accommodations
• according to the cabin owner there is no public transport option
• we’re flying to Finland with Easyjet direct from London, with a connecting flight required within the UK
• I have no anxiety/MH issues which DH should be worrying about. He generally think he’s the more responsible parent 🤨, which is often very annoying. I think he puts it down to the fact I was never desperate to have kids, whereas he was.

Progress to date…

• I’ve asked SIL and that option is out. As suspected she wouldn’t get the time away.
• I’ve research costs of changing names on tickets it would be £50 per person per flight, so doable
• I’ve costed adding a child to the booking if I could convince a friend to come along with one of their kiddos. This is working out and extra £1200 not including any additional luggage, so not really doable.

I have a couple of meet-up with friends over the next few weeks, so planning to sound them out. From a general “isn’t this ridiculous/what would you do” perspective and “would you want to come” position too. So will have to see how people react.

I am secretly hoping that restrictions may be relaxed, I’ve heard some other countries moving to Day 3-5 tests and self isolation for the non-vax until a negative test. That would at least let DH come, albeit be restricted to the cabin for the most part.

Other random thoughts…

• driving is still really worrying me (I don’t know why, I’m a capable driver). So may just take the hit on taxis costs.
• if I do the above, would probably need to do an online shop to stock up on food, don’t fancy doing that with taxi and kids!?!
• we’re still debating whether I take both boys but annoyingly (and bizarrely) if we went down the one kid route we’re tending to different scenarios,

1. I think I should take the oldest. At 7 it’s the ideal time to take him, in the next few years he may not believe anymore. He would definitely know if I went with his brother, whereas I don’t think a 2yr old would and there’s plenty of time to take him in future. At 7 he’s better able to participate in all the activities, would get more out of the experience overall and more likely to behave better in general. I’m also more likely to get a friend with their child to come with us too with DS7.

2. DH thinks I should take DS2. Or I should ask DS7 what he wants to do. His logic for this is DS7 is a daddy’s boy and wouldn’t want to go without him. I really don’t want to put DS in that position as I think it’s just horrible and cruel.

So yeah. That’s current thinking.

Asking a 7yo to make that decision js ridiculous.

It’s also quite convenient that your DH thinks you should take the younger child. More work for you and less missing out on for him.

You should take them both and put a stop to his nonsense that he, and your 7yo, know better than you.

I wouldn’t be remotely surprised though if he starts telling your 7yo how sad/worried etc he is to put him off going. If he starts that it would be marriage ending for me.

Hire a mothers help for the holiday if necessary.

Get the taxi and order food online in but you will be fine with the drive. Roads will be maintained.

Take both children. No discussion on that.

And yes any alienation of you or the holiday towards the children would be a deal breaker and end of marriage.

Not only would I go on holiday without him, but I'd seriously consider going through life without him from now on.

I can't believe a father husband and family man would make this choice. Yes it's his choice but if he brings it home to his kids it wouldn't be their choice to get infected would it? Is he also hanging around in the pubs mixing and mingling, not wearing a mask, etc? Knobhead comes to mind. If my wife would choose to not get vaccinated I would most likely divorce her. I'm not joking. And if she then ruins our long planned once in a lifetime holiday I would most definitely go without her. What a selfish, self centered, egotistical, irresponsible, childish, weak, idiotic, disregarding and disrespectful specimen of a husband. Go on the holiday and send him the divorce papers in Christmas wrapping!

Ah I missed the update...
Your 2 yo might not visually remember the experience but it will bring him emotional value as well as the shared experience with his sibling. I find it very strange you husband wants you to take both when before he was against going at all... Suspicious even.
However on the bright side. The finish are well used to dealing with snow. They are not surprised every year like the British and keep their roads nice and clean in the winter. I actually think you might be safer driving there in the winter than here!
As for going alone with two children. From experience I can tell you that actually they turn in to really adorable and cooperative kids if you make them feel part of the experience and also take a holiday of the normal routine "parenting". Have fun, be the crazy mum who suddenly decides to get some yummy snacks, ask them what they want to do next etc. And furthermore there will be only one parent setting the rules for them. This is both refreshing for them as well as you as there will be no ambiguity and playing parents of against each other. I have noticed that this can turn kids very sweet and cooperative.
I did read some strange behaviour by your husband between the lines of your update, some behaviour that raises eyebrows and brings to mind emotional control and manipulation as well as playing your kids of against you. Maybe take that holiday alone with your kids and reflect on that.
And although his words may say that he is the responsible parent his actions have clearly demonstrated the opposite. And actions speak louder than words.

Ah I forgot to add that I have really fond memories and have created a special bond with my kids during my holidays alone. I can really recommend it. Also I would recommend not taking any friend as that would make your holiday less intimate.

Not sure why you are even questioning taking one or two kids. And taking one without the other would be devestating to either of them and even more so to the older one. My kids at 2 were well aware of Santa and well aware of what was going on around them and would have been really gutted if they wouldnt have shared such an experience don't underestimate what lingers in a child's mind especially when it comes to unfairness. And to suggest your oldest shouldn't go because he's a daddy's boy just reeks of manipulation of both you and you child. And to suggest to ask the 7yo what he would want to do is just absolutely loathsome. What an obviously devious and manipulative suggestion. Don't even consider it! You are their mother: you decide! And really reevaluate your husband please. Just the sheer gal to suggest on of your children shouldn't go with their mother because he's a daddy's boy! I can't even imagine saying such a thing as it's at such a level of disrespect and self important centeredness it's just unbelievable!

Was just looking at videos of my kids around Christmas at two years old. And really surprised at how aware and how engaged they are as well as the joy that it brings them. Take them both!

You absolutely can't just take one child. Try to stop worrying about this. There are many single parents who manage holidays with 2 kids just fine.
It's sad to see you doubting your abilities like this. You can do this. Try to stop worrying and instead look forward to this amazing, once in a life time experience.
I wonder if your doubts about your capabilities and anxiety would disappear of you didn't have such a selfish, undermining husband (7 yr old daddy's boy 🙄- he just doesn't want to be left with the toddler)

Sounds like your husband is actively attempting to cause difficulties between you and your 7yo with that suggestion. ‘Daddy’s boy’ my arse- it’s a crazy idea, the hurt to a 7yo missing this trip would be devastating, and you can be absolutely certain that H would be framing it as Mummy choosing younger sibling.

Arranging to hire a nanny as per PP suggestion is a good idea if affordable.

On a practical note, are you sure there are taxis? Having plenty of experience of the Nordic countryside I can tell you that most villages do NOT have taxis, and some only prebooked several days ahead.

Same with food deliveries, don't assume any services are available. You're way better off renting a car.

And also, 2 year old won't remember the trip so go with just 7 year old. It'll be really special