To go on holiday without him….?

[PineapplePrincess]

Holiday booked for December. Me, DH and 2DC. Booked pre-pandemic.

Hubby is not vaccinated and country doesn't currently allow unvaccinated people entry. It’s unlikely to change position before we travel.

Option 1 - we go without him.

Option 2 - we abandon the holiday.

Husband is in favour of Option 2.

I’m wondering whether I could manage Option 1. Biggest difficulty other than keeping an eye on both kids in a foreign country, is driving - I’ve never done it outside of the UK and it would be in winter conditions.

Would it be unreasonable for me to consider going without him….?

@PineapplePrincess Many of solutions work on the basis that you would be able to change the name on the flight tickets (SIL instead of DH, girls holiday instead of family) but have you checked with the airline that you can do name changes? In my experience there are very few airlines who will change names after ticketing.

For what it's worth I think you would be fine alone with the DC. We women tent to rise to the occasion when required. If the car is an auto then there is less to think about when driving on "the wrong side of the road". I would be really pissed off if I had to forego the money and DH in my opinion doesn't have the right to dictate based on his choice. He has the freedom to choose but so do you - they just happen to be on different topics which are interlinked through circumstance.

OP the moment anyone said to me they didn't think I could cope I would be absolutely determined to go, but I'm bloody minded! Finland is a very safe, low crime country where virtually everyone spesks enough English to help you. There will be little traffic in the roads and your DC will be worn out from playing in the snow and sleep like logs. Lapland cabins are well insulated and it's easy to warm up. You can always reassure him you won't be getting drunk in the evening due to the cost of alcohol😁

Bloody hell OP! So the 'big man' doesn't think poor little you will be able to cope with your own, two DC 'navigating a foreign airport' and 'driving on the wrong side of the road'?! Who the actual fuck does he think he is? None of this is rocket science - people, including women with DC - do these things every day.

Unless there's some real medical/physical/mental heath related reason why you'd struggle, he's being a massive bell-end. If he disempowers you and belittles you enough perhaps you'll never have the self-confidence to disagree with him ever again......

Also, laughing my arse off at the idea he's an expert and has superior knowledge because of a Uni course he dropped out of .

What an absolute corker of a prince you've ended up with there OP. Here's an idea - how about you take your DC on the fabulous and expensive holiday you've been looking forward to for literally years. Have a wonderful time - perhaps 'managing by yourself' will give your self confidence a bit of a boost and you'll be a little less tolerant of your DH's patronising, controlling, selfish bullshit.

You can always reassure him you won't be getting drunk in the evening due to the cost of alcohol

Why does he need ‘re-assuring’ that she won’t continue to be the perfectly responsible parent she is?

She isn’t a wayward teenager persuading a parent.

FFS OP. You go with both your DC.

Is there something you haven't shared with us e.g. you have mental health issues or 1 or both of your DC are SEN? If you are all OK, you go together.

Your husband is just coming off as more and more of a twat. He doesn't have 'superior' knowledge of vaccines / vaccine data because he once chose to drop out of a 'medical course' after a short period of time when he was a teenager. I also find it worrying that there is a on-going narrative that you won't be able to 'cope' by yourself on a short European holiday with your DC - How old are your DC?

This whole situation is being caused by him being a dickhead and him thinking he is 'special' and knows more than the WHO.

Literally millions and millions of people have had the vaccine now. I got covid a few weeks ago and all I had was a bad cold and fatigue. I am so pleased I was double jabbed as previously in my life I have been seriously ill with chest infections.

In short, your DH is a prick. He should either get jabbed and go with you or you take your DC

All of those options except SIL are terrible, terrible things to suggest compared to you just going with your 2 DC on the planned trip.

There will be another solution to the driving if needed.

The language barrier isn’t going to be huge - Fins (for the most part) speak excellent English.

You can manage kids in an airport, course you can!

It’ll be an adventure and you’ll be proud of yourself for doing it.

This: Weighing that up against will the boys (and me) have fun without him? What will it feel like looking back on pictures without DH? How mad will he actually be if I do go (can he stop me?), and what are the ramifications for our relationship.

If you have to worry about the “ramifications for your relationship” on taking your DC to a planned and paid for holiday to Lapland, I’m sorry for you. Your husband must be a bigger arse than just a Covid anti-vaxer and a dominating personality in your marriage.

I’d stop talking about it. I’d tell him I was intending to go, and I’d love him to get vaccinated so he could join us. That I’d miss him if he didn’t decide to come, but not to worry about us.

His choice. But I’d stop discussing it and just start making solo plans.

He doesn’t seem to want to consider me going on my own (as well as thinking I won’t cope) says he’d worry constantly about us.

It’s not HIS decision though, is it?

His decision is not to go (because he’s decided not to get vaccinated).

All the rest is your decision.

Do you usually kow-tow to him?

@ShingleBeach

You can always reassure him you won't be getting drunk in the evening due to the cost of alcohol

Why does he need ‘re-assuring’ that she won’t continue to be the perfectly responsible parent she is?

She isn’t a wayward teenager persuading a parent.

It was a pisstake about his attitude.

Actually another thought. Could you speak to a friend with similar aged dcs and see if they want to go too. If they are able to take dhs ticket (changing name on ticket is often subject to a fee but nowhere near the cost of the ticket), and if your accommodation rental might let you just pay the difference to moving to a larger property, they would only need to cover the dcs flights and the difference to property cost.

Worth exploring.

MargosKaftan the holiday is term time.

All of those options except SIL are terrible, terrible things to suggest compared to you just going with your 2 DC on the planned trip.

I've just read the whole thread aghast at his selfishness and patronising attitude and most of my thoughts have already been said but I had to comment on the post above. I think asking the SIL to ask for special leave would be the height of selfishness on a par with everything else he's said and done. In the highly unlikely event that she agreed to ask and in the even more unlikely event that it was agreed (like if her head is like mine and has favourites - unlikely) she'd owe her school massively and would probably be resented by her colleagues, who will NEVER be able to take their dc out of school to Lapland in term time. If it was life or death to help a family member then absolutely fine, but this is wanting to put someone in a very awkward position just because he's an arrogant ill-informed tosser - it beggars belief.

Then I read the next suggestions - leaving one sibling behind, expecting another parent to visit Lapland without their own dc or turning it into a 'girls' ' holiday - WTF to all of those. Really. I can't believe the things being expected of other people to appease him. I also second the poster who mentioned how odd it is he's worried about you parenting your dc in a civilised European country but not worried about exposing them to the virus by not being vaccinated.

It looks like the place you are going is entirely set up for tourists so it will be extremely easy to navigate, organise and book everything and I'm sure you will come back feeling empowered. I've been taking my two away since they were 6 & 8, including driving abroad, and we have loved all our trips. I've turned up in cities in the evenings with no idea how to get to our accommodation and it's always fine - there's info everywhere and taxis, as well as smartphones with Google. You can be more organised and plan everything ahead - you will probably be able to book all the activities you want online before going. You can absolutely do this.

My guess is you won't go on your own, your husband has made you doubt yourself so much that you have talked yourself out of it.

How do single parents manage with their kids on holiday?

You need to tell yourself that you are a capable woman and mother and if you can manage your kids at home, then you can manage them abroad.

I just hope that when your husband wants you to do something as a family, that you refuse to go and tell him he can't go on his own either.

Honestly, I bet he won't like it if the tables were turned.

If you did decide to go, I bet you and your kids would have a wonderful time.

This man child sounds vile - and his medical 'knowledge' is laughable.

Definitely go without him. If not, you show him he is the boss and you will acquiesce to his demands. What father wouldn't want their children to have this opportunity?!

Countrygirl ah - sorry!

Was so riled up by the number of posts on this thread that actually collude with the DH’s ‘worry’ about a grown woman doing something really quite safe and normal by suggesting endless versions of a companion that I missed the nuance.

It is so deeply ingrained in women, the cop in the head that says ‘independence is to be feared’. Self fulfilling prophecy.

@Jerseygirl21 - I had assumed the OPs dcs are preschool aged or younger end of school age, so many wouldn't feel bad about taking dc with them.

The argument against taking a friend was that all her friends she is close enough to go with have dcs and wouldn't want to do this trip without them.

Just worth exploring if the trip was a lot cheaper (because the mums flight is covered taking OP's DHs ticket, and they wouldn't have to pay for all accommodation costs, just the difference to a bigger property to fit an extra 1 or 2 dcs in), would those friends want to go.

I don’t understand why taking one child would be any easier and no you really can’t do that. He sounds incredibly controlling, does he make you think you can’t handle two children so that you don’t leave?
Go on your own with them, you’ll be fine. I nderstabs not wanting to drive with the kids if you’re not confident but you’re very close to a main city. Just get taxis or ubers. If you look online there are probably travel agents, tourist information, fb groups etc that can help you

@ShingleBeach

Countrygirl ah - sorry!

Was so riled up by the number of posts on this thread that actually collude with the DH’s ‘worry’ about a grown woman doing something really quite safe and normal by suggesting endless versions of a companion that I missed the nuance.

It is so deeply ingrained in women, the cop in the head that says ‘independence is to be feared’. Self fulfilling prophecy.

In retrospect maybe I should have put reassure in inverted commas.

Don’t know if I’ve missed this but but why don’t you go and just use public transport? If it’s not far from the city centre and airport then cabs should be easy or even a bus.
He’s being selfish and as someone with a little “medical knowledge” he should know better!

Hi guys. Thanks for your posts. I am still here and am still reading.

I think I have decided I’m going, just having to figure out who with and how.

Few clarities to those asking questions:

• DS are 2 and 7, although both have NY birthdays
• we are going for a week in total (Wednesday to Wednesday)
• cabin is an Airbnb with no option to switch to another location
• cabin has a unique arrangement (previously adding to the charm, currently adding to the anxiety) where the sleeping arrangements are separate to the living accommodations
• according to the cabin owner there is no public transport option
• we’re flying to Finland with Easyjet direct from London, with a connecting flight required within the UK
• I have no anxiety/MH issues which DH should be worrying about. He generally think he’s the more responsible parent 🤨, which is often very annoying. I think he puts it down to the fact I was never desperate to have kids, whereas he was.

Progress to date…

• I’ve asked SIL and that option is out. As suspected she wouldn’t get the time away.
• I’ve research costs of changing names on tickets it would be £50 per person per flight, so doable
• I’ve costed adding a child to the booking if I could convince a friend to come along with one of their kiddos. This is working out and extra £1200 not including any additional luggage, so not really doable.

I have a couple of meet-up with friends over the next few weeks, so planning to sound them out. From a general “isn’t this ridiculous/what would you do” perspective and “would you want to come” position too. So will have to see how people react.

I am secretly hoping that restrictions may be relaxed, I’ve heard some other countries moving to Day 3-5 tests and self isolation for the non-vax until a negative test. That would at least let DH come, albeit be restricted to the cabin for the most part.

Other random thoughts…

• driving is still really worrying me (I don’t know why, I’m a capable driver). So may just take the hit on taxis costs.
• if I do the above, would probably need to do an online shop to stock up on food, don’t fancy doing that with taxi and kids!?!
• we’re still debating whether I take both boys but annoyingly (and bizarrely) if we went down the one kid route we’re tending to different scenarios,

1. I think I should take the oldest. At 7 it’s the ideal time to take him, in the next few years he may not believe anymore. He would definitely know if I went with his brother, whereas I don’t think a 2yr old would and there’s plenty of time to take him in future. At 7 he’s better able to participate in all the activities, would get more out of the experience overall and more likely to behave better in general. I’m also more likely to get a friend with their child to come with us too with DS7.

2. DH thinks I should take DS2. Or I should ask DS7 what he wants to do. His logic for this is DS7 is a daddy’s boy and wouldn’t want to go without him. I really don’t want to put DS in that position as I think it’s just horrible and cruel.

So yeah. That’s current thinking.

@PineapplePrincess

Hi guys. Thanks for your posts. I am still here and am still reading.

I think I have decided I’m going, just having to figure out who with and how.

Few clarities to those asking questions:

• DS are 2 and 7, although both have NY birthdays
• we are going for a week in total (Wednesday to Wednesday)
• cabin is an Airbnb with no option to switch to another location
• cabin has a unique arrangement (previously adding to the charm, currently adding to the anxiety) where the sleeping arrangements are separate to the living accommodations
• according to the cabin owner there is no public transport option
• we’re flying to Finland with Easyjet direct from London, with a connecting flight required within the UK
• I have no anxiety/MH issues which DH should be worrying about. He generally think he’s the more responsible parent 🤨, which is often very annoying. I think he puts it down to the fact I was never desperate to have kids, whereas he was.

Progress to date…

• I’ve asked SIL and that option is out. As suspected she wouldn’t get the time away.
• I’ve research costs of changing names on tickets it would be £50 per person per flight, so doable
• I’ve costed adding a child to the booking if I could convince a friend to come along with one of their kiddos. This is working out and extra £1200 not including any additional luggage, so not really doable.

I have a couple of meet-up with friends over the next few weeks, so planning to sound them out. From a general “isn’t this ridiculous/what would you do” perspective and “would you want to come” position too. So will have to see how people react.

I am secretly hoping that restrictions may be relaxed, I’ve heard some other countries moving to Day 3-5 tests and self isolation for the non-vax until a negative test. That would at least let DH come, albeit be restricted to the cabin for the most part.

Other random thoughts…

• driving is still really worrying me (I don’t know why, I’m a capable driver). So may just take the hit on taxis costs.
• if I do the above, would probably need to do an online shop to stock up on food, don’t fancy doing that with taxi and kids!?!
• we’re still debating whether I take both boys but annoyingly (and bizarrely) if we went down the one kid route we’re tending to different scenarios,

1. I think I should take the oldest. At 7 it’s the ideal time to take him, in the next few years he may not believe anymore. He would definitely know if I went with his brother, whereas I don’t think a 2yr old would and there’s plenty of time to take him in future. At 7 he’s better able to participate in all the activities, would get more out of the experience overall and more likely to behave better in general. I’m also more likely to get a friend with their child to come with us too with DS7.

2. DH thinks I should take DS2. Or I should ask DS7 what he wants to do. His logic for this is DS7 is a daddy’s boy and wouldn’t want to go without him. I really don’t want to put DS in that position as I think it’s just horrible and cruel.

So yeah. That’s current thinking.

Taking DS2 and leaving DS1 is ridiculous!

DS1 would know he was missing out and be disappointed, DS2 wouldn't give a shiny shit!

The magic of Father Christmas is about to finish for DS1, but not for DS2.

Very odd suggestion by your DH.

Go on GoogleEarth or Maps and look at the drive. Do some research. You’ll be fine.

I would absolutely stop considering DH’s opinion on any of this. He doesn’t get a say. (He’d rather stay home with the 7 year old over the 2 year old - what a shocker. Not.)

Honestly, if you could cope with taking 2 kids to see Father Christmas in a shopping centre in the UK Lapland will be a doddle.

I take it that of these friends you are sounding out, you are assuming/hoping they will do the driving. I think that's a big assumption! So that may not solve your major issue, even if you can persuade someone to come which I highly doubt.

Your husband's suggestion about one child going and even worse, that it be the younger is bonkers. Why are you even entertaining this crap. As other posters have said, he is sounding worse and worse. He created this totally ridiculous situation and seems determined to compound his fuckwittery by condescending to you, trying to control what happens and presenting himself as the favourite parent and hero Dad. I am pretty sure that the children will survive very well without him when they are having fun with you, their beloved mum in a dream location. You have GOT to stop accepting his version of reality or at least questionning it more

Honestly, every added detail about your dh and his suggestions raises my eyebrows more and more. Asking a child to make the decision is bonkers. Does he just not want the extra work a 2 year old bring? I love taking the dc away (I'm a lp) but I would struggle to enjoy being in Lapland as the only adult with a two year old who wouldn't be fully aware of everything anyway. With you and 7 year old it might be quite nice for him to get some one to one time with you - I imagine with their gap he sometimes has to put up with his brother's vagaries at times! Though you'd be fine with the two of them.

Yet another post where your DH comes across as even more of a tosser - genuinely he is a fucking moron.

So to be clear, this whole scenario would be sorted out if only your DH would get bloody jabbed - like 10s of millions of people in the UK have done and billions of people around the world. He is not special, he knows nothing more than the rest of us - actually I probably do more as I am an analyst and data scientist.

You should take both DC.

IF you take 1 DC it should be the oldest for all the reasons you have stated above.

The ONLY reason your 'D'H has suggested taking your youngest is that the younger DC will be harder for him to look after.

Regarding driving. It is honestly OK, if you are worried, book an automatic car.

To be really honest, your 'D'H sounds like a self centred, selfish twat. I genuinely don't know of another person who would jeopardise a long planned, awaited for and paid for family oriented holiday due to their own bullshit 'beliefs'

OP - you have had 20 pages this now, when will the penny drop that your 'D'H needs to do the right thing for his family and get jabbed. If he can't see this he is a total fuckwit