Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

@JudgeJerry well done BTW for being wise and strong enough to recognise that a clean break is 100% what you need right now. We need more doormatting refuser like you!

You’re not being mean by wanting to look at a positive way to exit from a situation you found yourself in, that developed over time with your ExDH taking advantage of you because it was easier for him

Your main priority is your DC and your life, plus your future. You’re very right to consider how making any formal visitation arrangement with the DSC would evolve. It’s how you got into the situation in the first place

Your DC and DSC will see each other when your ExDH has visitation with your DC. Advise your ExDH that you’re not the mother of your DSC so there is no need for a formal visitation schedule with them and that you’re happy to see them occasionally when it suits your schedule. He should concentrate on how he can ensure ongoing sibling relationships during the time he has all of his DC. It’s up to him to foster that relationship going forward. Frankly his suggestion screams of manipulation to get you to continue providing child care for the DSC.

And yes, you do need to consider your future should you eventually meet someone else and possibly have more DC.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop
I have answered this question, as have other people on this thread. Some sort of regular once a week in whatever format the OP was comfortable with seemed reasonable.
I'm not sure how you could not find it sad that these children have been first abandoned by their mother and then the woman who has filled this role for the last few years.
The OP is perfectly entitled to severe contact with the kids but it is clearly going to be upsetting for them if she does this. I find this very sad which I am entitled to feel.

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@JudgeJerry well done BTW for being wise and strong enough to recognise that a clean break is 100% what you need right now. We need more doormatting refuser like you![/quote]
It's not what those children need though, is it? But who cares about them, right?

I'm truly amazed at this thread, at how many mothers/women think its not just ok, but brave and brilliant, to completely cut off 2 children who you have full time parented for years. Without any care at all for their feelings or wellbeing, because you want to send their dad a message.
Makes me feel quite ill.

@JudgeJerry

Thanks again everyone. There's some wonderful advice on here and I really appreciate it, even those disagreeing with me (apart from a few nasty posters who I'm still waiting to hear what they actually think I should do practically!).

I think after reading and digesting everything, the best thing for me to do right now is to have a clean break for now. I don't think it will help the situation at all to make promises and schedules with him. There is a lot still to work out without this in the mix as well and it's one added stress and argument which we don't need to have right now. I will assure the children when we speak to them that they can always call me and I will say to them privately away from him that we'll get together soon but leave it at that and once the dust has settled from the initial leaving I'll see if they want to go out somewhere. If that goes well we can look to make it a regular thing but on the basis that it's requested by me in a 'are DC free to do X today' kind of way. Sleepovers may be possible in the future of DC request it as an occasional thing.

A few poster's have asked how I can't have love for children I've cared for for 4 years. I have not actually said this and have in fact said the opposite. I do love them, in our own way. No the love is not the love I have for my child and I am sure some will be shocked to hear that or that I am looking forward to not having the ties to this situation anymore once I leave. I think ASofa touched on the reason well, frankly as much as the children are of course blameless, the past 4 years have been a chore and absolutely not a positive experience in my life. I imagine I wouldn't feel this way if their Dad had done what he should have done from the outset but unfortunately he didn't and therefore unfortunately my feelings are tainted by this. A few poster's have brought up what I'd do if social services called tomorrow and said they couldn't be with their Dad or Mother, I'm assuming the hint being that I should offer to have them live with me. Unfortunately I don't believe that's something I could do.

I do care about the children, of course I do. I want them to be happy. But spending my life trying to solve the problems of their parents is not how I want to spend it and trying to do so would be absolutely detrimental to myself and my DC too.

So sensible-well done.

When are you/he physically separating households?

If it was me I'd stop doing anything at all for him parenting wise.

Your DC will see his kids when they see him.
Invite them for tea now and again if you want and if they want to come. Or don't. They aren't your kids so don't feel pressured into doing anything that their OWN father should be doing.
I'd be stepping away from them totally tbh

OP has not "abandoned" the kids ffs. They would have had to be hers in the first place either biologically or legally for this to be appropriate terminology for walking away. In the circumstances where you have become the primary carer not by choice but by default because both parents are useless, you can hardly be described as "abandoning" the kids when you rightly say no more!! That's just emotive language designed to elicit guilt. Which should be the emotion the parents feel in this situation. Not OP.

*It's not what those children need though, is it? But who cares about them, right?

I'm truly amazed at this thread, at how many mothers/women think its not just ok, but brave and brilliant, to completely cut off 2 children who you have full time parented for years. Without any care at all for their feelings or wellbeing, because you want to send their dad a message.
Makes me feel quite ill.*

Except no-one, least of all the OP, has advocated cutting them off completely. She's going to maintain contact on her terms, and not have it dictated by her abusive ex.

I'm truly amazed at this thread, at how many mothers/women think its not just ok, but brave and brilliant, to completely cut off 2 children who you have full time parented for years. Without any care at all for their feelings or wellbeing, because you want to send their dad a message.
Makes me feel quite ill.

It's a long thread so I might have missed it but I don't think anyone has suggested cutting off the kids and never seeing them ever again. Most posters have suggested seeing them from time to time, every week or fortnight in a favourite aunt kind of way.

I also strongly suspect that what these kids want is for their parents to step up. I am sure they are fond of the OP but I don't think the OP continuing to do everything for them helps their dad to realise he needs to be a proper parent.

I am more horrified that some people think the OP should see more of her step kids than her ex is planning to see of their joint child. The internalised sexism is incredible

@SoreusBacchus honestly, stop being so melodramatic. Have you read any of the OPs posts?

She's clearly said she loves them, she will talk to them, make it clear that they can contact her anytime. After she's had some space, she'll have them round for dinners and play dates with her DC and perhaps build up to overnights. How is that cutting them off?

And where is your anger at the children's parents.

Calm down dear

I'm truly amazed at this thread, at how many mothers/women think its not just ok, but brave and brilliant, to completely cut off 2 children who you have full time parented for years. Without any care at all for their feelings or wellbeing, because you want to send their dad a message.
Makes me feel quite ill.

Perhaps if you read the thread properly you'd feel less ill.

OP's reasoning for walking away is to preserve her own well-being, put appropriate boundaries around her own time and energy, and to be able to prioritise her own children.

Not to "send a message", ffs.

I'm not sure it's fair to say I'm doing this 'without any care at all for the children'. I have spent the whole thread trying to find a middle ground that could help them but also doesn't mean me spiralling again into the exact scenario I'm trying to leave and which has dragged me down mentally for years. It's not an easy decision at all and unfortunately I cannot come to a conclusion that fixes things for absolutely everyone involved. There are issues involved here which I cannot fix.

Bold fail on last post - @SoreusBacchus

Good luck op. It’s such a tough one x

I am more horrified that some people think the OP should see more of her step kids than her ex is planning to see of their joint child. The internalised sexism is incredible

Isn't it just 🙄

@SoreusBacchus
I completely agree with you 100%
@MattyGroves
Lots and lots of people have suggested that she cuts them off and has a clean break. Not sure how you could have missed that

When are you/he physically separating households?

We are about to get the house up for sale, it's in both of our names thankfully. There is enough equity for us both to have a deposit for a further property once it's sold but for now, I will be moving to my parents rental property once the sale has gone ahead when their tenant moves out (they were already leaving, they haven't been kicked out to make way for me!). I am very fortunate to have the support of my family both emotionally and practically.

Thanks for all the practical advice too. I actually work for a firm of solicitors so they are helping me with this and for reduced fees too. I've had some really brilliant support from so many people to help me get to this point.

@JudgeJerry I think you’ve made the right decision. I was one of the people who mentioned social services and I definitely wasn’t hinting that I expected you to step in if the worst happened. I just wanted you to be fully aware how bad things can get in extreme cases of neglectful parents.

My prediction is that your stbx will try to persuade you to reconsider the divorce and go on a charm offensive. When that doesn’t work, he will (grudgingly) pay for childcare until he finds a new willing young woman. Be prepared for him to be living with a new partner within 6 months.

Good luck!

I'm truly amazed at this thread, at how many mothers/women think its not just ok, but brave and brilliant, to completely cut off 2 children who you have full time parented for years. Without any care at all for their feelings or wellbeing, because you want to send their dad a message.
Makes me feel quite ill.

It is brave and it is brilliant to leave a relationship that you are unhappy in and by extension to leave behind being a stepparent. I have so much respect for any woman who realises her self respect and leaves the situation she’s in.
She’s not said anything about cutting the children off. She’s just not willing to carry on being a stepparent and all that has entailed for her up to now. What’s wrong with have an ad hoc arrangement where she sees them every so often?

You say she’s been their full time parent. Well she’s had no bloody choice has she? Their father pretty much forced it on her and she’s had enough.

Posts like yours make me feel ill where you think a woman has no escape once she gets with a man with children.

@JudgeJerry

When are you/he physically separating households?

We are about to get the house up for sale, it's in both of our names thankfully. There is enough equity for us both to have a deposit for a further property once it's sold but for now, I will be moving to my parents rental property once the sale has gone ahead when their tenant moves out (they were already leaving, they haven't been kicked out to make way for me!). I am very fortunate to have the support of my family both emotionally and practically.

Thanks for all the practical advice too. I actually work for a firm of solicitors so they are helping me with this and for reduced fees too. I've had some really brilliant support from so many people to help me get to this point.

That’s great-sounds like you have some really good support.

Just out of interest and not because you should know/worry/care about your ex, but what do you think he will do with regards to childcare/housework/mental load etc when he’s alone? All of the things he just refused to do and delegated to you-is there a mum/sister/friend you can see getting railroaded, or do you think he’ll get a nanny/cleaner?

Don’t answer that if you don’t want to though as it’s clearly not your problem, I was just musing!

[quote DancingQueen85]@SoreusBacchus
I completely agree with you 100%
@MattyGroves
Lots and lots of people have suggested that she cuts them off and has a clean break. Not sure how you could have missed that [/quote]
No one has suggested that. Not a single poster. They have merely said that she shouldn't agree to a formal schedule.

Your argument is pretty weak if you have to resort to making things up.

My prediction is that your stbx will try to persuade you to reconsider the divorce and go on a charm offensive. When that doesn’t work, he will (grudgingly) pay for childcare until he finds a new willing young woman. Be prepared for him to be living with a new partner within 6 months

Oh he tried that when I first asked for the divorce. He's now gone from that to just grumpy and argumentative, which is fine. I can live with that for a short while knowing that it won't be long until I'm out! I'm just trying to be as chirpy as possible for the kids when he's being miserable.

We touched on that a bit actually, about him finding someone else sooner rather than later, when I was having counselling. And strangely I cant really say I care, I feel very numb toward it now and like this is just something I have to get through now until I can have my freedom and life back again. I often find myself wishing he'd meet someone else and bugger off to be honest.

Exactly. It’s just a clean break from the responsibilities she’s had towards them and from the life they all had together.

Going forward she will have absolutely no responsibility towards them and that’s just what she needs. Not saying she will never see them again, but she will have so much more control over her own life and where she fits in their life and how much of herself she’s willing to give to them.

I'm truly amazed at this thread, at how many mothers/women think its not just ok, but brave and brilliant, to completely cut off 2 children who you have full time parented for years. Without any care at all for their feelings or wellbeing, because you want to send their dad a message. Makes me feel quite ill.

I'm truly amazed at how many fathers/men think it's not just ok but sensible and justifiable to completely abdicate parenting their own children to the first naive young woman who comes along so they can continue working all hours and making as much money as they can. Without any care for their children's feelings or wellbeing, because eventually that young woman will grow up, wise up, realise she's being played for a fool and refuse to continue as an unpaid nanny and housekeeper providing benefits on the side. Makes me want to vomit.

Just out of interest and not because you should know/worry/care about your ex, but what do you think he will do with regards to childcare/housework/mental load etc when he’s alone? All of the things he just refused to do and delegated to you-is there a mum/sister/friend you can see getting railroaded, or do you think he’ll get a nanny/cleaner?

If I was going to make a guess I'd say he's likely to pay to outsource things. Especially things like school drop offs/pick ups as there's no way he'd reduce his hours enough to sort these himself, but I know a lot of parents can't do that. After school though I'm not sure. I don't even think he knows what an au pair is.

His family live 2 hours away so I can't see them being much support unfortunately. He doesn't have a sister, just two brothers who if I'm being honest are equally naff with their own kids. His Mum and Dad are actually very nice but they are not a massively hands on grandparents and are getting older now anyway so likely couldn't offer much anyway.

He is not neglectful in the sense that I have no concerns the children will be housed, fed, got to school, clothed and so on. He will just find any way to make sure he's not the one who has to physically do it, or the majority anyway. So yes, I imagine paying someone will likely be what happens.