To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

[Aspiringmatriarch]

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

Biden inherited a shit show from the great Orange Cheesepuff that hung around with convicted sex offenders.

So, in 2020 - it was going to be another 4 years with the Orange one or Biden. That was the choice made by the Americans during their National Primary elections.

The withdrawal from Afghanistan wasn't an overnight decision and was not made only by one man. Troop numbers in the area have been decreasing long before Biden showed up on the scene.
As for what Trump did that was so wrong???
6th January ring any bells???? He was trying to destroy the democracy of the United States, from the office of President, then feigns ignorance (that he managed to do very well and very often) when someone, including his own VP say that he can't do that. It's illegal.

I honestly don't think there could have been anything that Joe Biden could have done that would change some of the minds that have already posted so far on this board.

I'm genuinely shocked to see how sucked into the GOP machine so many appear to be - Donald J. Trump was the worst president the US has ever had....and they've had some doozys in their time. Remember Nixon??? Watergate?? The scandal that gave the world the suffix "-gate" to add to any scandal as a result???

Trump signed the Afghanistan withdrawal agreement in February 2020.

This was all Trump's doing (and Boris Johnson's).

Don't believe the right-wing propaganda that this Biden's fault.

I know all politicians blame their predecessors when things go wrong, but this attitude really annoys me. Biden has been in office for seven months - easily enough time to reverse the decision to withdraw from Afghanistan. I can't stand the way politicians pass the buck and try to blame others. Take responsibility for your own mistakes.

@user34128913

I am a researcher and I try my best to be neutral about politicians by looking at the big picture and long term effects. Hand on heart, I cannot tell why people think Trump was a bad president. He found his way around the absolutely tricky, delicate balance of Middle East peace. The issues we see now with Israel, Afghanistan etc are not a coincidence - the entire region has been destabilised quite significantly in the last eight months.

The refugee crisis will now get worse (and we have more to come if my assessment of the situation in Iran and Syria is accurate). Trump destroyed a lot of the ISIS stronghold in Syria and there is now a high chance they are coming back.

The Mexico border issue has been going on since Obama's first presidency - it didn't get better or worse in Trump's time; it got worse in Biden's time.

Financial institutions benefited greatly from deregulation during Trump's presidency - innovation and better consumer products as a result.

Reforming US immigration in a way never seen before, for the benefit of Americans (I am sure people outside the US will disagree with this, but the H1B visa process makes a lot more sense now, with more Americans being hired for the same job instead of foreigners, for example)

Criminal justice reform.

Honestly, keeping the 'man' aside, why don't we recognise that good things happened during his presidency?

Over 600,000 Americans have died from Covid, many of them needlessly.

He egged on his supporters to storm the capitol.

There are two pretty good reasons for you right there.

This thread is very worrying that people have already forgotten some of the awful things Trump did. What about the poor kids forcibly removed from their parents at the border and locked up under terrible conditions? What about how he bungled COVID management resulting in the deaths of so many? What about approving oil pipelines to be built through indigenous land? What about the fact that he's a racist liar who never did release his tax returns?

And, I agree, that the current situation in Afghanistan is in large part down to Trump.

But, yeah, he's anti-trans rights, so many on MN love him.

Like it or not, Biden is doing what the American people want. They don’t want to be involved in foreign wars. The rest of the world can step up if it wants to instead of expecting America to sort everything out. I say this as a British person.

@Terhou

I am a researcher and I try my best to be neutral about politicians by looking at the big picture and long term effects. Hand on heart, I cannot tell why people think Trump was a bad president.

Strangely, I see no mention of his Covid lack of response in your post, @user34128913 - to say nothing of the disinfectant saga. Nor his highly dodgy financial dealings and outright corruption.

lol the US curve pretty much in line with Western Europe. I mean, it’s not like COVID has been stopped under Biden’s presidency either 🙄

And corruption? If you like corruption, pls look into Hunter Biden’s ‘art’. Tip of the iceberg for that family.

Cut from the same cloth, all of them. US voters are the real losers regardless who wins

@Warmduscher

70% of the American public agreed with withdrawing troops.

He didn’t do what was best for Afghanistan.

He did why was best for his own people.

There have been thousands of US military deaths since they invaded, how many more?

Biden is very far from perfect - I know. I know. At least he has some humility, grace, decorum, intelligence and he doesn't incite violence, sedition and white supremacist terrorism with his manchildish, pathetic and low IQ refusal to admit defeat. He doesn't mock the disabled or describe ku klux Klan members as very fine people. He doesn't think rich people are the victims of having to witness the homeless. I could go on and on.

@lubeybooby He has left thousands of women and children to suffer from beatings, rape, abuse and death at the hands of a brutal regime in Afghanistan though - something which could have been entirely prevented.

But hey, at least he's got grace and decorum

@Hont1986

He's obviously a lot more with it cognitively than Trump was.

I don't think this at all. Both men are obviously suffering from some mental decline but Biden definitely seems more the 'doddery old man'.

I don't think trump is suffering from mental decline.

That implies there was a higher level for his mental capacity to decline from..

@ineedaholidaynow

What is the rest of the world doing about Afghanistan?

Good question. French troops, German ones, where are they? Rich countries who claim to care about human rights.

I think this thread is full of Russian bots.

Biden inherited a shit show from the great Orange Cheesepuff that hung around with convicted sex offenders.

I've never heard anyone call Bill Clinton an Orange Cheesepuff before.

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Like it or not, Biden is doing what the American people want. They don’t want to be involved in foreign wars. The rest of the world can step up if it wants to instead of expecting America to sort everything out. I say this as a British person.

This.

America are not the international police.

It is not their responsibility to police other countries for terrorists.

OP: you need to stop spreading misinformation and lies.

@careandattention this is unfair and insulting. First of all I'm not claiming to be any kind of authority, but also I don't think I actually said anything that could be categorised as misinformation or lies.

America are not the international police

I can see your point, but it will impact America too, sooner rather than later

@Iusedtobesoooomuchfun

He's senile. He's definitely got some sort of dementia. The whole things is awful.

Yes Trump certainly has.

Its great to know we have a member of the Presidential medical team on MN.

Over 600,000 Americans have died from Covid, many of them needlessly.

Hundreds of thousands of Afghans are now going to be brutalised and killed at the hands of the Taliban, all of them needlessly.

@Westchesterarms

Obama was withdrawing troops before Trump.

Yes, but he did a slow draw down, in phases. He abandoned his electoral promise to withdraw completely, following a review.

Biden should have reviewed the Trump proposals, and perhaps continued the slow approach

OTOH, if the 'enemy' sees itself as fighting a thousand year series of wars, then the threat of resurgence isn't going to go away. So then arise questions 'are we going to be doing this forever?' 'if not now then when?'

How can Biden be in charge of the US. He looks so frail and dithering. Love them or loathe them, the POTUS should have a powerful or commanding presence, but he looks so weak. I bet Russia and China are pissing themselves laughing at him.

@Terhou

I am a researcher and I try my best to be neutral about politicians by looking at the big picture and long term effects. Hand on heart, I cannot tell why people think Trump was a bad president.

Strangely, I see no mention of his Covid lack of response in your post, @user34128913 - to say nothing of the disinfectant saga. Nor his highly dodgy financial dealings and outright corruption.

Covid wasn't handled well by anyone (except China?) but I don't know the long term impact. For eg, we think NZ has handled covid very well, but they could open up the borders and go to crazy numbers tomorrow. Same with China and HK who have very closed borders. We think Sweden did fine without any lockdowns, but is that going to be the case next winter? As a researcher, I cannot say if the US numbers were good or bad yet.

I agree he was corrupt and nepotist, but I am not looking at the person at all, only at the decisions taken in the office in those 4 years.

Biden's son Beau served in Iraq. I think Biden has a lot of empathy for the military. Whatever happened, I don't believe that he took this decision lightly.

@careandattention

Trump signed the Afghanistan withdrawal agreement in February 2020.

This was all Trump's doing (and Boris Johnson's).

Don't believe the right-wing propaganda that this Biden's fault.

To be fair, neither Trump nor Johnston was responsible for US and UK troops going into Afghanistan, nor for what happened in the early days. (Military folk here may correct me, but I believed in the early 2000s it was make-or-break then, and that the choice to invade Iraq ensured there were never enough resources or attention paid to Afghanistan).

So there was always going to be a hideous problem at withdrawal.

@lllllllllll

Biden is very far from perfect - I know. I know. At least he has some humility, grace, decorum, intelligence and he doesn't incite violence, sedition and white supremacist terrorism with his manchildish, pathetic and low IQ refusal to admit defeat. He doesn't mock the disabled or describe ku klux Klan members as very fine people. He doesn't think rich people are the victims of having to witness the homeless. I could go on and on.

@lubeybooby He has left thousands of women and children to suffer from beatings, rape, abuse and death at the hands of a brutal regime in Afghanistan though - something which could have been entirely prevented.

But hey, at least he's got grace and decorum

Jesus though as awful as it sounds THEY’RE NOT HIS PEOPLE.

Biden is the president of America, not of America and Afghanistan. There have been American troops there for twenty years. Thousands have died and what good has it done - fuck all. There is an entire world to intervene, Americans are tired and they want out. Where’s everyone else? Where’s China or France or Germany or the UK? Where are the surrounding Arab countries? Nowhere. Instead of tarring and feathering Biden let’s look at holding some of the other world leaders accountable.

Billions upon billions have been spent in taxes in the military occupation and America could do with having that diverted back into its own country. The failing school system, the abysmal health care. Biden is not the Antichrist for choosing to withdraw his own troops from a foreign country no one else wants to intervene in.

People's memories are unbelievably short.

@lllllllllll

Over 600,000 Americans have died from Covid, many of them needlessly.

Hundreds of thousands of Afghans are now going to be brutalised and killed at the hands of the Taliban, all of them needlessly.

it was getting too dangerous for the remaining troops....what would you have done? left them there to fight a futile fight?