Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
mustlovegin · 16/08/2021 15:24

America are not the international police

The lack of leadership, the wokeness, everything will come back to bite them. They are a very important player in the international scene, they have traditionally maintained the balance. They cannot suddenly hide under a rock and expect not to suffer the consequences.

PhoenixFreesias · 16/08/2021 15:24

No-one has managed to hold the Afghani warlords down in 2 millennia of trying.

Think about about much of a war footing that puts a society on. And think how much that mindset plays into ignoring everything else.

There’s no social progress if you are constantly at war.

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 15:25

Trump's withdrawal from the kurds was worse

Anonymous48 · 16/08/2021 15:25

@lllllllllll

Over 600,000 Americans have died from Covid, many of them needlessly.

Hundreds of thousands of Afghans are now going to be brutalised and killed at the hands of the Taliban, all of them needlessly.

And that's awful, but why is it America's job to act as the world's policemen? Thousands of US troops have died there over the past 20 year as well.
suspiria777 · 16/08/2021 15:25

@Warmduscher

70% of the American public agreed with withdrawing troops.
So what? The American public knows almost nothing about Afghanistan.

Even if they did, the question is woefully simplistic. I think most people would prefer if nations weren't engaged in war, but there were many possible ways to reduce the presence of troops in Afghanistan, many of which would have been less catastrophic than this way. Whether or not 70% of Americans polled wanted to withdraw, I on't imagine any of them wanted it to happen this way.

MsMD · 16/08/2021 15:26

And what exactly are the UK Armed Forces doing? Ah, nothing.

We have been there for 20 years almost. 20. At this point there is nothing more we can do - the last few weeks have not been the problem or mismanaged, the last 20 years have been.

If you're so distressed at what a foreign country is doing DESPITE billions of dollars and years of support, petition your own government to do something about it. Or do you not want to he caught in an endless war?

Oh and if you didn't live with an admitted rapist as your president, if you didn't work in Healthcare in the middle of a worldwide pandemic in which your president constantly spread misinformation and berated us as professionals, if you didn't wake up every day with the fear of what he was doing that would hurt your family today - your opinion means nothing.

jasjas1973 · 16/08/2021 15:26

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Like it or not, Biden is doing what the American people want. They don’t want to be involved in foreign wars. The rest of the world can step up if it wants to instead of expecting America to sort everything out. I say this as a British person.
Entirely agree, around 10k troops/personnel would have secured Afghanistan, providing the back up and support the Afghan police and army needed, most of logistics, little actual combat.

Chances are, an America First POTUS will come back in 2024, we in Europe need to organise our own defence & security.

Biden is doing what Trump would have done, its a disgrace either way.

MarshaBradyo · 16/08/2021 15:27

Some US have been critical and said it is against US interests to leave.

Those who think this, how long do they stay? Another twenty years?

Send more troops back in. Are people ok with that

Echobelly · 16/08/2021 15:27

Biden is not a great president but at least he's not an egotistical moron who let people die because he didn't want to face up to a virus that he couldn't bully or bribe into submission, and nor is Biden likely to try to overturn democracy and keep lying about it again and again with no evidence.

paepoyrol · 16/08/2021 15:27

Whether or not 70% of Americans polled wanted to withdraw, I on't imagine any of them wanted it to happen this way.

What's the alternative? It would always be messy unless troops stayed.

newyorker74 · 16/08/2021 15:28

@lllllllllll

Biden is very far from perfect - I know. I know. At least he has some humility, grace, decorum, intelligence and he doesn't incite violence, sedition and white supremacist terrorism with his manchildish, pathetic and low IQ refusal to admit defeat. He doesn't mock the disabled or describe ku klux Klan members as very fine people. He doesn't think rich people are the victims of having to witness the homeless. I could go on and on.

@lubeybooby He has left thousands of women and children to suffer from beatings, rape, abuse and death at the hands of a brutal regime in Afghanistan though - something which could have been entirely prevented.

But hey, at least he's got grace and decorum Hmm

Please tell me how. The only two suggestions I seen from people who are either experts on the area or warfare more generally are either (a) stay long term in the country with approx 25,000 troops needed or (b) fly all women and children out of the country. But please, let me know how this could have been entirely prevented...
paepoyrol · 16/08/2021 15:28

Send more troops back in. Are people ok with that

Well exactly. I'm not American not have anyone in the army so how can I dictate?

EdgeOfACoin · 16/08/2021 15:28

This is the execution of Trump's amazing deal with the Taliban.

The alternative would have been to pack Afghanistan with more American troops and keep the war going for another 20 years.

Unless there was a third way, which was...?

Btw, I don't rate Biden. But let's not pretend that Trump would have had a different outcome.

Anonymous48 · 16/08/2021 15:28

@MsMD

And what exactly are the UK Armed Forces doing? Ah, nothing.

We have been there for 20 years almost. 20. At this point there is nothing more we can do - the last few weeks have not been the problem or mismanaged, the last 20 years have been.

If you're so distressed at what a foreign country is doing DESPITE billions of dollars and years of support, petition your own government to do something about it. Or do you not want to he caught in an endless war?

Oh and if you didn't live with an admitted rapist as your president, if you didn't work in Healthcare in the middle of a worldwide pandemic in which your president constantly spread misinformation and berated us as professionals, if you didn't wake up every day with the fear of what he was doing that would hurt your family today - your opinion means nothing.

I agree. It's infuriating reading the opinions of all these (presumably, in the main, British) people telling Americans that we should be happy for our troops to stay and risk their lives in an endless war.
grapewine · 16/08/2021 15:29

They cannot suddenly hide under a rock and expect not to suffer the consequences.

I'm not even American, but that's so callous. They haven't been hiding, they've been there for twenty years. So many losses and so many wounded veterans coming home with lives smashed to pieces. I don't blame the American people for being fed up with being expected to "keep the balance" or whatever.

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 15:30

UK troops are still there

LookItsMeAgain · 16/08/2021 15:31

@Hont1986

Biden inherited a shit show from the great Orange Cheesepuff that hung around with convicted sex offenders.

I've never heard anyone call Bill Clinton an Orange Cheesepuff before.

The person who held the office of President (and this same person was anything but Presidential) before Joseph Biden took office was not Bill Clinton.
Bretoony · 16/08/2021 15:31

Orange man bad

MarshaBradyo · 16/08/2021 15:31

It's infuriating reading the opinions of all these (presumably, in the main, British) people telling Americans that we should be happy for our troops to stay and risk their lives in an endless war.

I understand this view. It’s very easy to offer other people up.

Although we would have stayed if US did. We couldn’t alone though.

No one can say you go, I even see it from Afghan posters not there - you go to my country but I’ll be here.

ThePriceIsNotRight · 16/08/2021 15:31

The stage has been set for withdrawal for a long time. The Biden administration already extended the date beyond May 1st, but a complete U-turn would have been deeply unpopular in the United States, and ultimately Americans care about Americans before they care about Afghanistan. The United States frankly could not afford to stay in perpetuity, training a disparate and corrupt army that had no real intention of standing up against the Taliban, who they knew full well were just waiting the western forces out.

I don’t know a single member of the US military who has served over there, that is surprised by this turn of events. Perhaps at the speed, but not at the end result. Personally I feel a sad sense of inevitability about this (whatever that’s worth), but I am glad my husband won’t have to go over there for the fourth time, and I’m glad no more of my friends will be risking their lives there.

Yourstupidityexhaustsme · 16/08/2021 15:32

@mustlovegin

America are not the international police

The lack of leadership, the wokeness, everything will come back to bite them. They are a very important player in the international scene, they have traditionally maintained the balance. They cannot suddenly hide under a rock and expect not to suffer the consequences.

It will bite the whole world.

Whilst an important player, they are not the sole player.

The silence of world leaders, the UN of EVERYONE is deafening.

No one else wants to get involved and the American people don’t want to see any more of their kids slaughtered in the name of futility.

It’s someone else’s turn.

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 15:33

He was wasnt he, bretoony, even shitter and more corrupt than i could have imagined

NotPersephone · 16/08/2021 15:34

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Hont1986 · 16/08/2021 15:34

The person who held the office of President (and this same person was anything but Presidential) before Joseph Biden took office was not Bill Clinton.

Uhhhh yes I know. The point is that the Democrats have had their own fair share of palling around with sex offenders. Biden is an alleged molester himself.

MimiDaisy11 · 16/08/2021 15:34

What about Trump having a conversation with the leader of Turkey and then basically straight after announcing troop withdrawal of troops in Syria? The effect on the Kurds from that? How many needlessly died? At least there was some timetable in place and some previous announcements on withdrawal of troops in Afghanistan.

People have such short term memories. Granted Trump’s constant scandals actually helped that as it was hard to keep up.