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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Terhou · 16/08/2021 15:02

@Iusedtobesoooomuchfun

OK, he's not senile. He has dementia.
Evidence?
Anonymous48 · 16/08/2021 15:02

@NotPersephone

He’s senile.

The evacuation may have just landed on his “watch” but when asked about the plight of women and children in Afghanistan, his “oh man! I wanna talk about something cheerful!” response pretty much made me despise him
as much as Trump.

At age 80 and apparently with advanced dementia he’s toast in a few years either way.

He's 78.

He is not senile.

Apparently you have advanced dementia.

MarshaBradyo · 16/08/2021 15:03

@paepoyrol

Anyone who thinks a withdrawal wouldn't have been messy is deluded. The only solution was to leave troops there forever but there wasn't the appetite for that either.
I agree. Keep them there as a kind of insurance against future extremist attacks or go. But if you do the former there’s no end point and whenever you leave it will be bad, as it has been.
careandattention · 16/08/2021 15:03

Trump signed the Afghanistan withdrawal agreement in February 2020.

This was all Trump's doing (and Boris Johnson's).

Don't believe the right-wing propaganda that this Biden's fault.

Kdubs1981 · 16/08/2021 15:04

Political opinions aside....

A lot of clinical experts in dementia on this thread. Just wondering what your clinical evidence for diagnosis is? And what your training is in dementia diagnosis.

The people saying he has advance dementia are particularly comical (and ignorant).

I'm not sure if you are aware, but he has a speech impediment, which sometimes makes his speech less fluent, which gives the impression he has lost his train of thought.

The fact you disagree with his foreign policy and the fact he is 80 does not mean he has dementia.

Anonymous48 · 16/08/2021 15:04

[quote Iusedtobesoooomuchfun]@Anonymous48

Are you kidding... Evidence. It's out there for you to watch. They are some shocking videos.
He didn't remember his mum is dead ans asked where she was during a conference. Being shown on television. He then believed their person who told him "she's watching at home"
Theres evidence everywhere. He's sinile.[/quote]
I think you're "sinile" quite frankly.

He was asking about someone else's mom, not his own.

Kdubs1981 · 16/08/2021 15:05

Apologies, he's 78!

Hont1986 · 16/08/2021 15:05

He's obviously a lot more with it cognitively than Trump was.

I don't think this at all. Both men are obviously suffering from some mental decline but Biden definitely seems more the 'doddery old man'.

careandattention · 16/08/2021 15:05

And it makes me deeply ashamed to be British.

Another triumph of life wastage and incompetence by Boris and Donald and their right-wing popularism that goes hand-in-hand with decreasing international aid and denying refugees sanctury.

gardeninggirl68 · 16/08/2021 15:05

the Taliban have asked UNICEF to stay and to continue working there

thats a bit of good news i suppose. i'm surprised by iy though

Mayorquimby2 · 16/08/2021 15:06

[quote Iusedtobesoooomuchfun]@Anonymous48

Are you kidding... Evidence. It's out there for you to watch. They are some shocking videos.
He didn't remember his mum is dead ans asked where she was during a conference. Being shown on television. He then believed their person who told him "she's watching at home"
Theres evidence everywhere. He's sinile.[/quote]
That would be extremely damning if true.

But it's not. So.....

user34128913 · 16/08/2021 15:06

I am a researcher and I try my best to be neutral about politicians by looking at the big picture and long term effects. Hand on heart, I cannot tell why people think Trump was a bad president. He found his way around the absolutely tricky, delicate balance of Middle East peace. The issues we see now with Israel, Afghanistan etc are not a coincidence - the entire region has been destabilised quite significantly in the last eight months.

The refugee crisis will now get worse (and we have more to come if my assessment of the situation in Iran and Syria is accurate). Trump destroyed a lot of the ISIS stronghold in Syria and there is now a high chance they are coming back.

The Mexico border issue has been going on since Obama's first presidency - it didn't get better or worse in Trump's time; it got worse in Biden's time.

Financial institutions benefited greatly from deregulation during Trump's presidency - innovation and better consumer products as a result.

Reforming US immigration in a way never seen before, for the benefit of Americans (I am sure people outside the US will disagree with this, but the H1B visa process makes a lot more sense now, with more Americans being hired for the same job instead of foreigners, for example)

Criminal justice reform.

Honestly, keeping the 'man' aside, why don't we recognise that good things happened during his presidency?

careandattention · 16/08/2021 15:07

OP: you need to stop spreading misinformation and lies.

Trump signed the withdrawal agreement in February 2020

And Boris is jointly responsible.

Chailatteplease · 16/08/2021 15:07

@pinkcircustop

Trump was a great president; people are just loathe to admit it.

Biden doesn’t really know what’s going on.

Lol.
gardeninggirl68 · 16/08/2021 15:07

I'm not ashamed to be British though!

MarshaBradyo · 16/08/2021 15:08

@careandattention

OP: you need to stop spreading misinformation and lies.

Trump signed the withdrawal agreement in February 2020

And Boris is jointly responsible.

How long would you stay?
LionGiraffe · 16/08/2021 15:08

@MopaniTree

I read so much criticism of Trump but when it comes down to it, what did he actually do that was materially so awful?

I think Biden comes across as more "Presidential" but in fact his actions in the short time since coming into office have had an awful impact on women's rights and now on Afghanistan.

I love how short people’s memories are.

Shall we start with empowering and legitimising white supremacists and egging on a right wing mob to storm to the cradle of American democracy?

Porcupineintherough · 16/08/2021 15:09

@Blessex which bit? The last few days, the last 6 weeks or the last 20 years? Or the period before that?

CaveMum · 16/08/2021 15:09

@Blessex

The withdrawal was put in place by Trump. He negotiated theconditional peace deal in 2020that agreed the withdrawal of US and NATO forces. Biden should have u-turned on this but tricky when the wheels were already in motion and the withdrawal had the backing of the majority of the American public.

Tricky????? He’s the POTUS.

POTUS isn't half as powerful as people like to imagine. This is an interesting read:

"From the moment a president takes office — regardless of party — it seems that praise and blame for any occurrence during the four years he or she occupies the White House is immediately assigned to the Oval Office.

The President of the United States is indeed one of the most powerful and influential people on the planet. The decisions the president makes and the actions he or she takes have national, as well as global implications.

However, the picture of the president — painted by many media outlets as one of an all-powerful and controlling figure — is far from the truth. The office of the president makes up only one of three equal branches of American government. Our founding fathers designed our government this way to be self-balancing, to ensure that no one person had too much power.

The president leads the Executive Branch. He or she serves as both the head of state and the head of government for the U.S., as well as the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. Despite these impressive titles, the president has strict limits placed on his power and authority.

So what are the powers of the President?

The president’s responsibilities are outlined in Article II of the Constitution and include:

*The power to call state units of the National Guard into service (in times of emergency he/she may be given the power by Congress to manage national security or the economy.)
*The power make treaties with Senate approval. He or she can also receive ambassadors and work with leaders of other nations.
*The power to nominate the heads of governmental departments, judges to federal courts and justices to the United States Supreme Court. All nominations must then be approved by the Senate.
*The power to issue pardons for federal offenses.
*The power to convene Congress for special sessions.
*The power to veto legislation approved by Congress. However, the veto is limited. It is not a line-item veto, meaning that he or she cannot veto only specific parts of legislation, and it can be overridden by a two-thirds vote by Congress.

Many Americans would likely be shocked by how limited the president’s powers actually are. As evidenced by the list above, there is little the president can do without the approval of Congress. It is only through negotiation and collaboration between the president and Congress that our nation’s initiatives, concerns and problems can be addressed."

onlinepoliticalsciencedegree.eku.edu/insidelook/what-are-powers-president-united-states-america

Alondra · 16/08/2021 15:10

Leaving Afghanistan is a decision for the US foreign policy. Trump is still the worst president of the US.

He is a serial cheater, a serial liar and a person with very limited intellectual resources.

gardeninggirl68 · 16/08/2021 15:11

@user34128913 its good to get a different perspective, and a neutral one at that.

Bagamoyo1 · 16/08/2021 15:11

@MoiraRose4

But what’s the alternative? How many years have troops been present and look how quickly it has crumbled. Do they stay there forever?
that's what I was wondering
lubeybooby · 16/08/2021 15:11

No. Never even think that

Biden is very far from perfect - I know. I know. At least he has some humility, grace, decorum, intelligence and he doesn't incite violence, sedition and white supremacist terrorism with his manchildish, pathetic and low IQ refusal to admit defeat. He doesn't mock the disabled or describe ku klux Klan members as very fine people. He doesn't think rich people are the victims of having to witness the homeless. I could go on and on.

Trump is one of the most putrid stains on the fabric of humanity that has ever lived.

Anonymous48 · 16/08/2021 15:12

@Hont1986

He's obviously a lot more with it cognitively than Trump was.

I don't think this at all. Both men are obviously suffering from some mental decline but Biden definitely seems more the 'doddery old man'.

"Obviously"? It's not obvious at all. Are you aware that Biden famously overcame a speech impediment and that's why he sometimes stumbles over words? I greatly admire him for that, even though he's not the great orator that Obama was.
Terhou · 16/08/2021 15:12

I am a researcher and I try my best to be neutral about politicians by looking at the big picture and long term effects. Hand on heart, I cannot tell why people think Trump was a bad president.

Strangely, I see no mention of his Covid lack of response in your post, @user34128913 - to say nothing of the disinfectant saga. Nor his highly dodgy financial dealings and outright corruption.