Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
pinkcircustop · 16/08/2021 14:26

Trump was a great president; people are just loathe to admit it.

Biden doesn’t really know what’s going on.

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 14:27

He talks the talk about female rights by championing his wife’s career and having a female Vice President but he had condemned millions of woman in Afghanistan to a horrific life now.

He can never claim to care about this again. Thousands of women will be utterly brutalised as an entirely predictable result of this decision and the way it's been put into action.

OP posts:
Comedycook · 16/08/2021 14:27

@Skiptheheartsandflowers

No, Trump was utterly batshit and dangerous to both his own citizens and people outside the US. But that doesn't mean the events in Afghanistan aren't awful.
Well we say this but if we look at history, he is one of the few presidents who didn't take the us into any new wars
mustlovegin · 16/08/2021 14:28

It's not clear who is ruling the USA currently. The whole Western world appears to be acephalous

MangoFeverDream · 16/08/2021 14:29

@paepoyrol

70% of the American public agreed with withdrawing troops.

Washington wouldn't do something deeply unpopular if it was unpopular & the decision is not just Bidens.

There’s the decision to withdraw and then there’s the execution of that decision. Biden failed badly on the latter.
Proudboomer · 16/08/2021 14:31

Where is Biden?
This has been evolving over the last 3 days and so far he hasn’t managed to give one interview or statement.

paepoyrol · 16/08/2021 14:35

There’s the decision to withdraw and then there’s the execution of that decision. Biden failed badly on the latter.

I don't disagree the handling of it was bad but I don't think it's Bidens sole responsibility & clearly no one expected it to fall so quickly.

PerkingFaintly · 16/08/2021 14:35

@Proudboomer

Where is Biden? This has been evolving over the last 3 days and so far he hasn’t managed to give one interview or statement.
Eh? Biden made a statement two days ago.

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/08/14/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-afghanistan/

Statement by President Joe Biden on Afghanistan
AUGUST 14, 2021

Over the past several days, I have been in close contact with my national security team to give them direction on how to protect our interests and values as we end our military mission in Afghanistan.

First, based on the recommendations of our diplomatic, military, and intelligence teams, I have authorized the deployment of approximately 5,000 U.S. troops to make sure we can have an orderly and safe drawdown of U.S. personnel and other allied personnel, and an orderly and safe evacuation of Afghans who helped our troops during our mission and those at special risk from the Taliban advance.

Second, I have ordered our Armed Forces and our Intelligence Community to ensure that we will maintain the capability and the vigilance to address future terrorist threats from Afghanistan.

Third, I have directed the Secretary of State to support President Ghani and other Afghan leaders as they seek to prevent further bloodshed and pursue a political settlement. Secretary Blinken will also engage with key regional stakeholders.

Fourth, we have conveyed to the Taliban representatives in Doha, via our Combatant Commander, that any action on their part on the ground in Afghanistan, that puts U.S. personnel or our mission at risk there, will be met with a swift and strong U.S. military response.

Fifth, I have placed Ambassador Tracey Jacobson in charge of a whole-of-government effort to process, transport, and relocate Afghan Special Immigrant Visa applicants and other Afghan allies. Our hearts go out to the brave Afghan men and women who are now at risk. We are working to evacuate thousands of those who helped our cause and their families.

That is what we are going to do. Now let me be clear about how we got here.

America went to Afghanistan 20 years ago to defeat the forces that attacked this country on September 11th. That mission resulted in the death of Osama bin Laden over a decade ago and the degradation of al Qaeda. And yet, 10 years later, when I became President, a small number of U.S. troops still remained on the ground, in harm’s way, with a looming deadline to withdraw them or go back to open combat.

Over our country’s 20 years at war in Afghanistan, America has sent its finest young men and women, invested nearly $1 trillion dollars, trained over 300,000 Afghan soldiers and police, equipped them with state-of-the-art military equipment, and maintained their air force as part of the longest war in U.S. history. One more year, or five more years, of U.S. military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan military cannot or will not hold its own country. And an endless American presence in the middle of another country’s civil conflict was not acceptable to me.

When I came to office, I inherited a deal cut by my predecessor—which he invited the Taliban to discuss at Camp David on the eve of 9/11 of 2019—that left the Taliban in the strongest position militarily since 2001 and imposed a May 1, 2021 deadline on U.S. Forces. Shortly before he left office, he also drew U.S. Forces down to a bare minimum of 2,500. Therefore, when I became President, I faced a choice—follow through on the deal, with a brief extension to get our Forces and our allies’ Forces out safely, or ramp up our presence and send more American troops to fight once again in another country’s civil conflict. I was the fourth President to preside over an American troop presence in Afghanistan—two Republicans, two Democrats. I would not, and will not, pass this war onto a fifth.

Pokhora · 16/08/2021 14:37

The withdrawal was put in place by Trump. He negotiated theconditional peace deal in 2020that agreed the withdrawal of US and NATO forces. Biden should have u-turned on this but tricky when the wheels were already in motion and the withdrawal had the backing of the majority of the American public.

paepoyrol · 16/08/2021 14:38

What's going to happen & is happening particularly to women & children is terrible but I'm not prepared to fight the Taliban myself or have my dh, db do it etc.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 16/08/2021 14:38

He talks the talk about female rights by championing his wife’s career and having a female Vice President

Only because he wants to appeal to young black voters and female voters.

If Trump is an old school outspoken sexist, then creepy Joe is the 'hiding in plain sight' version.
www.thecut.com/2020/04/joe-biden-accuser-accusations-allegations.html

Also, someone who thinks that men can be women because of a feeling, is no supporter of women's rights.

goodwinter · 16/08/2021 14:41

@MopaniTree

I read so much criticism of Trump but when it comes down to it, what did he actually do that was materially so awful?

I think Biden comes across as more "Presidential" but in fact his actions in the short time since coming into office have had an awful impact on women's rights and now on Afghanistan.

Yep. Trump talked a big (and abhorrent) game but I'm not sure he actually had much material impact on the lives of Americans, good or bad. The danger with someone like Biden is assuming he's got the nation's best interests at heart because he's a Democrat, or that everyone should rally behind him because he's the "lesser of two evils".
Hont1986 · 16/08/2021 14:42

Oh come on, you know he didn't write that statement.

He's being hidden from cameras as much as possible because he can't get through a press conference without a gaffe.

PerkingFaintly · 16/08/2021 14:43

WTF?

Iusedtobesoooomuchfun · 16/08/2021 14:44

@Hont1986

Oh come on, you know he didn't write that statement.

He's being hidden from cameras as much as possible because he can't get through a press conference without a gaffe.

It's hard to watch him. It's like watching someone being abused.

"Mum, Where's mum, I'd like to thank Mum. Oh she's at home is she...." I mean jesus christ. She's been dead for 10 years. Someone stop the man! He can't go on like this.

Porcupineintherough · 16/08/2021 14:45

Hardly. The situation in Afghanistan has been a mess for generations. And if Americans dont want their troops there then they can choose to remove them. A bit more notice would have been nice but I csnt imagine many countries would have wanted to volunteer to take their place.

Proudboomer · 16/08/2021 14:45

Maybe I should have specifically said a live statement on air with journalists and questions after.

You know like other politicians do.

Blessex · 16/08/2021 14:46

How he can sleep at night after seeing those people on the news this morning falling from the sky after trying to jump onto a taxiing military plane is beyond me.

This. Horrible images.

Knittingupastorm · 16/08/2021 14:46

@Hont1986

Oh come on, you know he didn't write that statement.

He's being hidden from cameras as much as possible because he can't get through a press conference without a gaffe.

While I agree with you about the press conferences, I wouldn’t actually expect him (or any president) to write their own statements. I’d be surprised if they did.
Blessex · 16/08/2021 14:47

Hardly. The situation in Afghanistan has been a mess for generations. And if Americans dont want their troops there then they can choose to remove them. A bit more notice would have been nice but I csnt imagine many countries would have wanted to volunteer to take their place.

Do you understand that the manner in which it has been done is awful?

Iggly · 16/08/2021 14:47

As I understand it, Donald Trump invited the taliban to camp David on the anniversary of 9/11 (!!) and his deadline for withdrawing was in April. Biden extended it.

I also understand that a lot of troops had already been withdrawn.

Someone on Twitter said, if you’re not an expert on this, keep your comments to yourself - and I think, with this one, I agree.

I don’t doubt for a minute that trump would have made this even worse than it is.

I think that the UK and US have been caught out by just how quickly the Taliban were ready to take over and I suspect that this was their plan all along.

Staying in Afghanistan was never an option.

And I hate to say it, but there are plenty of awful atrocities going on across the world. The western world has made things worse in so many countries - Afghanistan is yet another casualty.

I think money needs to be thrown at it, but we’ve got Rishi the car salesman who has no expertise and doesn’t belong in the role of chancellor. We’ve got a clown of a prime minister.

All a fucking joke.

newyorker74 · 16/08/2021 14:48

Trump pulled out around 12,000 US troops in the last 2 months of his presidency. He also released over 5,000 Taliban prisoners against the wishes of the Afghan government. His secretary of state met with the leader of the Taliban and promised that US troops would be out by may 1. The Taliban have spent the last 9 months moving across the country bribing local leaders to allow them safe passage (would love to know where that money came from) knowing that the only way the US could stay was to bring back the 12,000 troops and add more. Biden had an impossible job. Where we are is the result of 20 plus years of bad choices and lies by pretty much every US leader on all sides but your anger should mainly be focused on George W Bush and Cheney who started a war to win an election in a country which had done nothing to the US and had no wish for us to be there.

fiveminutebreak · 16/08/2021 14:48

Agree that Biden has failed terribly to oversee a better exit...however....the Taliban were waiting in the wings ..of course they would do all they could to overthrow the government once US troops had left. So whether it happened now or in three years time, without an occupying force it seems unlikely that the outcome would be any different. I think he's probably just speeded up the inevitable. But he will absolutely get flamed and possibly lose the next election because of it.

Feels a bit like Trump has laid the groundwork for his failure.

Living in the US without Trump inflaming domestic tension is such a bloody relief... he may not be a great President but he is not encouraging his supporters to overthrow the government or legitimising racism or attacking the democratic foundations of the US.

mustlovegin · 16/08/2021 14:48

You get the impression he's being used as a facade. It's unlikely most Americans would have voted for those who appear to be pulling the strings behind him