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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taliban enter Kabul

999 replies

tttigress · 15/08/2021 10:01

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

OP posts:
Proudboomer · 15/08/2021 15:29

Biden has cocked up the withdrawal but the withdrawal is overdue and we need to get out and stay out now

shekamboo · 15/08/2021 15:37

Honestly, my auntie in Kabul just reassured me everything is fine, she's still at work, taliban have been in the office checking hijabi is observed. All her daughters finished uni exams last week and at home safe and sound.

Media lies

DuncinToffee · 15/08/2021 15:37

As reported by different media outlets, only last month US and UK politicians/officials were assuring their countries that a military victory for the Taliban wasn’t on the cards.

Question now- bad intelligence assessments or wishful thinking?

Chocolatier9 · 15/08/2021 15:51

@shekamboo, thank you for the link, very interesting.

AlohaMolly · 15/08/2021 15:51

Our government are actively blocking people leaving, I’ve read today. People that gained university places for this year from Afghanistan are being denied visas. Mi6 and army allies are being denied refuge/asylum by our home office.

Say what you will about the rights and wrongs of the last 20 years, but our government are vile and are actively denying people help that will be executed. Afghan soldiers have been executed outside their homes. I’ve read reports of afghan soldiers not even being fed, let alone paid.

JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil · 15/08/2021 15:58

A PP asked who was funding the Taliban. It’s heroin users. They will turn it back into the narcostate it was pre 9/11. If people stopped buying smack, the Taliban would soon be broke, not be able to buy bullets and would have to work with the West to change in order to get development funding.

sst1234 · 15/08/2021 16:00

Politically speaking, the US found the most incompetent and corrupt people to form the government, for instance the President who has just run off and left the country while it descends further into anarchy. These people have lined their pockets with US taxpayers money and had no intention of ever improving the lives of ordinary Afghans. Not sure things form will be much worse than they were before.

Annasgirl · 15/08/2021 16:03

@Proudboomer

And now we will have the hand wringing of how we have abandoned the people of Afghanistan and how women and children will suffer because of it.

No the west has spent 20 years, $800billon and thousands of western life’s both dead and injured to try to bring democracy and stability to a country that clearly doesn’t want it. The Afghan army trained and paid for by the west hasn’t fought for their own country so why the hell should our sons and daughters do so?
Biden has cocked up the withdrawal but the withdrawal but we need to get out and stay out now.

I agree with this - to all those saying we should help - would you personally, or would you want your DH or DS or DD to go to war in this country? I would not, therefore, I will never ask any other mother to ask her son to do so on my behalf.

Biden realises that middle America (who voted for Trump) do not want to send their sons to Afghanistan or any other Middle Eastern country or any other country outside of the US to promote 'peace and democracy" and he has enough sense to pull out. He would have lost the mid terms if he did not - and the US voters would have been correct to vote against him.

Susannahmoody · 15/08/2021 16:10

Honestly, my auntie in Kabul just reassured me everything is fine, she's still at work, taliban have been in the office checking hijabi is observed. All her daughters finished uni exams last week and at home safe and sound.

^

Really?

So who do we believe?

MarshaBradyo · 15/08/2021 16:11

A mix of views from Afghan people calling in on LBC (in U.K.)

Some saying it’s good even. Others not.

PicsInRed · 15/08/2021 16:23

@MarshaBradyo

A mix of views from Afghan people calling in on LBC (in U.K.)

Some saying it’s good even. Others not.

Hope is very different to safety.
Comedycook · 15/08/2021 16:24

Honestly, my auntie in Kabul just reassured me everything is fine

For now perhaps...

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/08/2021 16:25

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

A PP asked who was funding the Taliban. It’s heroin users. They will turn it back into the narcostate it was pre 9/11. If people stopped buying smack, the Taliban would soon be broke, not be able to buy bullets and would have to work with the West to change in order to get development funding.
The poppy farming and opium production for heroin is one source. But also they get funds from foreign donations in the gulf states and from Pakistan. In addition, and as much as the drug income, they extort a cut from every US/Allied reconstruction contract that is let. They’ve been siphoning off millions from the trillions spent to build infrastructure, schools, hospitals, the Afghan army itself. So withdrawing actually cut some of their funds and if you read the reports every city they take, they are “taxing” the people to raise funds for continued civil war.
MarshaBradyo · 15/08/2021 16:27

Pics what do you mean?

I was interested in a couple who said the same as pp, I thought it would be blanket condemnation

I do think this is shocking and worrying, but now leaning more towards time to leave - it could have been handled better I assume though

Idontknowwhat2 · 15/08/2021 16:27

@Comedycook

Honestly, my auntie in Kabul just reassured me everything is fine

For now perhaps...

Exactly, the Taliban aren't known for their humanity. Particularly towards women and children. They marry 12 year old girls...
jasjas1973 · 15/08/2021 16:29

@Idontknowwhat2

I think its hideous. Remember that the Afghan national army heavily outnumbered the Taliban but from what I see they just let them take over.

I'm horrified for the women and children, but the overall lack of resistance to the Taliban must show Afghans are majority in favour of their barbaric ways?

Do they? Given the speed in which they have taken over the country, it would suggest there are a lot more than we have been told.... they took Halmand from the first the US and then the British.

Its a total betrayal of the all the soldiers who have died and the afghan peoples that we have pulled out and left them to their fate.

Yes we were there a long time but it was relatively low risk and low numbers of troops needed - the US has been in Korea for over 70 years.

....and they said that Corbyn was an appeaser :(

jasjas1973 · 15/08/2021 16:32

@MarshaBradyo

Pics what do you mean?

I was interested in a couple who said the same as pp, I thought it would be blanket condemnation

I do think this is shocking and worrying, but now leaning more towards time to leave - it could have been handled better I assume though

You wont be saying that when al Qaeda has bases there and they use that to launch their ideology to the West via terrorism.

Not too mention the refugees who will come to europe and hence the UK.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 15/08/2021 16:32

@Proudboomer

And now we will have the hand wringing of how we have abandoned the people of Afghanistan and how women and children will suffer because of it.

No the west has spent 20 years, $800billon and thousands of western life’s both dead and injured to try to bring democracy and stability to a country that clearly doesn’t want it. The Afghan army trained and paid for by the west hasn’t fought for their own country so why the hell should our sons and daughters do so?
Biden has cocked up the withdrawal but the withdrawal but we need to get out and stay out now.

But the US/UK never went into Afghanistan with the aim of bringing democracy to the country did they? I thought it was to find Bin Laden and destroy his supporters. The progress made for women's rights etc was a side effect- and a really positive one. And it's awful to think of what ordinary people, particularly women and children, are on the brink of losing.

None of us want to go back to the days of service personnel being killed and maimed out there. But is it not the case that active combat operations ceased in Afghanistan a number of years ago now? Rory Stewart has been interviewed multiple times about this recently and has spoken well. He described continued air support as relatively low risk, sustainable and vital.

I can't help but feel that it means even more so that any of our losses were futile, if all of the good side effects of what happened post 9/11 are destroyed. And I also wonder if it makes it more likely that actually, we will go back to enduring the kind of losses to our armed forces that were so regular before, if Afghanistan once again becomes a haven for terrorists. Is this all short sighted- I can't help but wonder if we're going to end up with a repeat of 9/11 and everything that followed at some point.

MarshaBradyo · 15/08/2021 16:33

JasJas would you be happy for your family members to go and fight?

jasjas1973 · 15/08/2021 16:37

@MarshaBradyo

JasJas would you be happy for your family members to go and fight?
What is the point of spending 40 billion on the Army if they are not used to protect UK interests?

We may as well pack the whole thing up and become a neutral state.

But to answer your question, no of course not, as just as my Gran wasnt happy that her son flew missions over nazi Germany but sometimes, these things have to be done.

MarshaBradyo · 15/08/2021 16:39

Terroism is a concern. Did being there help or did it help provoke it

It’s not always welcome for us to be there. Either way someone is criticising

How long do people want the West to stay?

notimagain · 15/08/2021 16:40

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Rory Stewart has been interviewed multiple times about this recently and has spoken well. He described continued air support as relatively low risk, sustainable and vital.

Any idea what he meant by air support?

jasjas1973 · 15/08/2021 16:41

@MarshaBradyo

Terroism is a concern. Did being there help or did it help provoke it

It’s not always welcome for us to be there. Either way someone is criticising

How long do people want the West to stay?

Thats a good point - how long are we (the west) to stay in the falklands korea, Cyprus?

As i said, Al Qaeda will return, they will fund their murderous operations via opium, as they did in the 90s and god alone knows what they will do next.

MarshaBradyo · 15/08/2021 16:42

What is the point of spending 40 billion on the Army if they are not used to protect UK interests?

We need the US to stay for us to. It isn’t in their interests anymore otherwise they would.