Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

@shekamboo

Honestly, my auntie in Kabul just reassured me everything is fine, she's still at work, taliban have been in the office checking hijabi is observed. All her daughters finished uni exams last week and at home safe and sound.

Media lies

I hope sincerely this will continue.

I’ve said YABU. I do totally get the argument for and it’s difficult to say either / or. As your argument is strong. But I’m trying to see the positives. 20 years of freedom for women and children and hoping that it will continue. Just maybe.

@MarshaBradyo

Pics what do you mean?

I was interested in a couple who said the same as pp, I thought it would be blanket condemnation

I do think this is shocking and worrying, but now leaning more towards time to leave - it could have been handled better I assume though

What I mean is that they probably feel relief that there might be a peaceful transition, hope that things will be better, they want to believe the reassurances the Taliban give today, and they celebrate the ousting of revoltingly corrupt local rulers (including child sexual abuse).

Of course very soon we'll see the post regime change atrocities and purging tale place en large. The opinions will be different then.

@MarshaBradyo

What is the point of spending 40 billion on the Army if they are not used to protect UK interests?

We need the US to stay for us to. It isn’t in their interests anymore otherwise they would.

No we didn't, the Yanks would have been forced to back track if we had said we are staying...it would have caused a huge atlantic row but as always we gave in....

Remember that the Afghan national army heavily outnumbered the Taliban but from what I see they just let them take over.

I have been reading on another forum that apparently they were 'paper soldiers' - just made up so the commanders could claim more funds.

And the ones who were actually soldiers - had apparently not been paid for months so decided to join 'The Taliban'.

I put that in quotations because from what some afghans are saying this is not as organised a terror group as we imagine. In their words it is 'armed rural villagers, pissed of army defectors and simpletons who want to overthrow the government'.

But I would take that with a bucket of salt because who fucking knows?!?

[quote shekamboo]go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210727-the-taliban-is-steering-the-graveyard-of-empires-towards-a-new-era/[/quote]
But why on earth should we expect the movement and its supporters to adopt and embrace our cultures, habits and beliefs which they find equally unpalatable?

What a ridiculous statement, and a ridiculous article to be honest.

I really doubt we can influence to that extent.

I haven’t heard any commentators go with that line - listening to speakers on
It. Have you seen anyone with that view?

That was re we could stay without US

Nah we couldn't stay without the US, if we said we were going to they wouldn't feel beholden to also stay.

@MarshaBradyo

I really doubt we can influence to that extent.

I haven’t heard any commentators go with that line - listening to speakers on
It. Have you seen anyone with that view?

So what your saying is the UK and perhaps some other NATO allies cannot influence the US nor provide a few 1000 soldiers... pre withdrawl the US had 2,5k soldiers in afghan.

Disband the UK military (supposedly the "best in the world") clearly pointless and a waste of money.

I m hardly a fan of Jonny Mercer but he is 100% correct, it was doable, listen also to Tom Tugendhat or Tim Marshal

@shekamboo

Honestly, my auntie in Kabul just reassured me everything is fine, she's still at work, taliban have been in the office checking hijabi is observed. All her daughters finished uni exams last week and at home safe and sound.

Media lies

For how long though?

For all his pro-women rhetoric, Biden has done a terrible thing here by throwing women and girls in Afghanistan into a hopeless future where they will not be able to work, be educated and even worse, will be taken (even young girls) to be sex slaves for the brutes that are the Taliban.
There literally is no way out for them and no hope.

So what your saying is the UK and perhaps some other NATO allies cannot influence the US

When US withdrew so did other countries. U.K. would have been standing alone.

No they shouldn’t be disbanded just because they were not the only Western country to say we’re staying.

How long would you like them to be there and how effective would they be?

@jasjas1973 no we can't influence to US to stay, I'm a bit confused why this would be a surprise to you?

@HyacynthBucket

For all his pro-women rhetoric, Biden has done a terrible thing here by throwing women and girls in Afghanistan into a hopeless future where they will not be able to work, be educated and even worse, will be taken (even young girls) to be sex slaves for the brutes that are the Taliban. There literally is no way out for them and no hope.

Biden isn't pro woman at all, his policies are quite frankly anti-woman on the whole. That said, the same was going to happen whoever pulled the final troops out.

Of course they are going to play along when the world is watching. What will happen when it becomes a backwater no one cares about, as it was pre 9/11?

All the children born in the past 20 years who have had a little but of freedom and normality

[quote Stealbee]@jasjas1973 no we can't influence to US to stay, I'm a bit confused why this would be a surprise to you?[/quote]
If this is true then fuck them off out of UK bases, clearly there is no defence alliance, cooperation nor joint interest.

Less of the stupid condescending crap pls.

I hate the phrase, but perhaps educate yourself then you might see why what you said was a bit ridiculous.

What is the point of spending 40 billion on the Army if they are not used to protect UK interests?

What are UK interests in Afghanistan? U.K. originally was interested because it was protecting India, but then India became independent and could defend itself. Then it was to limit spread of Soviet influence and communist ideology. Then it was to stop drug trafficking. Then it was to go to source of terror attacks to stop them. Now? I have no idea why UK would be interested in Afghanistan?

I do think that region would depopulate itself if the West had open doors to refugees from there.

@HyacynthBucket

For all his pro-women rhetoric, Biden has done a terrible thing here by throwing women and girls in Afghanistan into a hopeless future where they will not be able to work, be educated and even worse, will be taken (even young girls) to be sex slaves for the brutes that are the Taliban. There literally is no way out for them and no hope.

*This

Not too mention the 1000s of Afghan support workers we used during the last 20 years, there is now no way we can get the 1000s of westerners of Kabel, let alone anyone else if the Taliban choose not to let us.

Utter humiliation and misjudgement.

I have no idea why anyone thinks if we stayed it would influence the US to do anything other than what they wanted to.

Go research the Suez Crisis, that was a total humiliation when the UK thought the US would back us up and they were like, no thanks.

Alliance/cooperation/whatever with the US is one way.

@jasjas1973
If this is true then fuck them off out of UK bases, clearly there is no defence alliance, cooperation nor joint interest.

Lol....you obviously don’t know that the withdrawal was jointly agreed on by both US and U.K. governments? And that they cooperated together to do the withdrawal?

@PlanDeRaccordement

What is the point of spending 40 billion on the Army if they are not used to protect UK interests?

What are UK interests in Afghanistan? U.K. originally was interested because it was protecting India, but then India became independent and could defend itself. Then it was to limit spread of Soviet influence and communist ideology. Then it was to stop drug trafficking. Then it was to go to source of terror attacks to stop them. Now? I have no idea why UK would be interested in Afghanistan?

I do think that region would depopulate itself if the West had open doors to refugees from there.

Two words Al Qaeda

Biden has cocked up, his tweets only one month ago about the Taliban and how they wouldn't get control make him look utterly stupid.

There should have been a comprehensive transition period.

Terrible for many Afghans but the Taliban haven't met any resistance so perhaps they aren't as unpopular as our media would like us to believe.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@jasjas1973
If this is true then fuck them off out of UK bases, clearly there is no defence alliance, cooperation nor joint interest.

Lol....you obviously don’t know that the withdrawal was jointly agreed on by both US and U.K. governments? And that they cooperated together to do the withdrawal?[/quote]
Lol indeed!

Nope, listen to UK defence sec Ben Wallace, he things it a mistake.... US told us, we went along with it, no discussion

oh and wht withdrawal? i see blind panic