Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taliban enter Kabul

999 replies

tttigress · 15/08/2021 10:01

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

OP posts:
mellongoose · 15/08/2021 13:29

In addition, China will use the country to gain access to Pakistani ports, reducing their vulnerability in the South China Sea.

This is a bloody hornets nest. Cheers America.

PerkingFaintly · 15/08/2021 13:29

On 29 Feb 2020:
Afghan conflict: Trump hails deal with Taliban to end 18-year war
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51692546

On 16 Nov 2020 (ie after Trump had lost the election):
Trump 'to order further troop withdrawal' from Afghanistan and Iraq
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54968200

Biden has continued the withdrawal, and that's on him, but for anyone trying to paint this as "at least Trump didn't do this"... Trump absolutely did.

And to be fair on Trump, he like every other president since 2009 inherited the mess made by George W Bush, who not only sent troops into Afghanistan but then IIUC critically under-resourced that mission because he elected to invade Iraq as well.

I don't know if there could ever have been a "successful" mission in Afghanistan, but the invasion of Iraq ensured it would fail.

brokenbiscuitsx · 15/08/2021 13:29

@memberofthewedding

Western countries should keep their heads out of trying to impose their "democracy" upon tribal societies. No good ever comes of it. These countries need to sort out their own society. Look what happened in Iraq! We should have kept out and left Sadaam where he was.
I hate to say it, but I tend to agree. All it does it stoke up hate for the U.K. (and causes terrorist attacked on our soil in retaliation) and the hate is there all the time as for done, we’re doing too much and for others, not enough. Can’t win.
PlanDeRaccordement · 15/08/2021 13:31

Waste of time and trillions of $

PicsInRed · 15/08/2021 13:32

@mellongoose

In addition, China will use the country to gain access to Pakistani ports, reducing their vulnerability in the South China Sea.

This is a bloody hornets nest. Cheers America.

Yep, the belt and road just got pulled notches tighter.

Otoh, that's a lot of road to militarily hold and an entire region no longer policed by the US. So it could be said that we've just removed a massive subsidy on local security cost for the belt and road project.

PerkingFaintly · 15/08/2021 13:32

It's all bloody awful, and I've been dreading this day since US & UK troops went in.

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/08/2021 13:37

president since 2009 inherited the mess made by George W Bush, who not only sent troops into Afghanistan but then IIUC critically under-resourced that mission because he elected to invade Iraq as well.

Excuse me? He made the mess...are you forgetting the 1996 declaration of war on the US and the 9/11 attack? (And other attempted and actual smaller attacks before and after).

Boulshired · 15/08/2021 13:37

The Afghan army were being asked to do a job that bigger, stronger, richer countries could not do. Some have tried and failed. If they could not defeat the taliban with western help for 20 years especially air support they were not going to defeat them now. All that has happened is the taliban now has weapons it’s could only of dreamed of 20 years ago when it was still capable of rule by threat.

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/08/2021 13:42

It’s funny while the US and allies were there and the country was relatively peaceful and women weren’t swathed in burkas and could learn to read and be an MP they’re criticised as neo-colonialist western imperialists occupying a poor defenceless country and should withdraw so the indigenous people can rule themselves into a new age of democracy, peace and prosperity.

But the second the US and allies withdraw.....wham! They’re criticised about twenty years occupation not being enough. How dare they leave and the country to fall into chaos and it’s the US fault that the Taliban are persecuting all women and all non Muslims.

At some point a country should get its own shit together.

FrancescaContini · 15/08/2021 13:45

The poor poor children, babies, women, everyone in Afghanistan. I want to weep.

The UK and other European countries have to be prepared to welcome in everyone fleeing the country.

IfNot · 15/08/2021 13:57

Yes I think the only thing western countries can do now is assist women and children in getting out, if they want to.

Boulshired · 15/08/2021 14:02

Unfortunately the only women and children who want to escape will already be at borders. Others will be remaining indoors.

BlackForestCake · 15/08/2021 14:05

incel party in the West, officially campaigning for women's rights to be curtailed,

Already exists, it's the Lib Dems

PicsInRed · 15/08/2021 14:11

@Boulshired

Unfortunately the only women and children who want to escape will already be at borders. Others will be remaining indoors.
The Taliban control all the land borders. Airports are the only way out and, for those attempting to exit by commercial means, that time has already passed.

I'd be terrified to be officially recorded as having attempted to leave, as they'll be denied clearance to exit and then visited at home later as part of the purges which will follow this initial period of faux conciliation.

mellongoose · 15/08/2021 14:14

@IfNot

Yes I think the only thing western countries can do now is assist women and children in getting out, if they want to.
Many people simply cannot leave. We cannot get them out and they cannot get out. We must be prepared for this. And we have to live with the consequences.

We are doing as much as we can behind the scenes, but it will not be enough. The advance has come too quickly.

Proudboomer · 15/08/2021 14:18

Biden is a joke and misread the whole situation as it was only in July that Biden said that it was very unlikely that the taliban would reach into Kabul and here we are 4 weeks later in this mess.

But even with what is happening now and what will happen in the months to come I don’t think it is the wests place to sort it all out. 20 years of occupation and still the taliban are there just waiting to re-emerge.

LowlandLucky · 15/08/2021 14:40

The west will never change Afghanistan and why should we? My Children's Father done 3 tours there, my Nephew 5 and my friend lost her Husband out there. So many other British service personnel and their families are still suffering because of that god forsaken hole. I truly hope not a single other military family have to go through hell for that place.

Panickingpavlova · 15/08/2021 14:41

Proud I agree.
Sticking by withdrawal is one thing but massively under estimating the enemy is another and putting the lives of your own citizens at risk, the lives of those those who helped them is appalling.

He's scored an own goal, given a huge boost to any terror groups.

MarshaBradyo · 15/08/2021 14:44

@LowlandLucky

The west will never change Afghanistan and why should we? My Children's Father done 3 tours there, my Nephew 5 and my friend lost her Husband out there. So many other British service personnel and their families are still suffering because of that god forsaken hole. I truly hope not a single other military family have to go through hell for that place.
I can understand this view
Whammyyammy · 15/08/2021 14:49

USA and UK are not world police, we also cannot force the people of Afghanistan to live a western culture, its not their way.

Proudboomer · 15/08/2021 15:02

Along with the lose of life and the injured the us and nato has spent over £800billon in the last 20 years in Afghanistan. A lot of people have got rich on corruption and mismanagement on funds.
Over £80billon has been spent on building up Afghan security forces and still within days they fold and surrender.
The whole thing has been a complete waste. What else could that £800billon been spent on which didn’t perpetuate a war we shouldn’t have been involved in in the first place.

itsgettingwierd · 15/08/2021 15:04

@tttigress

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

There was an ex soldier on bbc news this morning talking about this.

He was very emotional and quite rightly.

He lost both legs and an arm out there.

Well worth a watch for the opinions of those who were in the frontline about whether it was worth it. Not just for the Afghan army they trained or the Afghan civilians but for themselves and their families once they returned from the horror they endured.

EddyF · 15/08/2021 15:15

@tttigress

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

This is the thread I was looking for; I am genuinely scared. I was around 15/16 at the time but I remember my parents were deeply invested in the news the first time round, so I remember being terrified of the Taliban (and still am). I am really scared for the people especially women and children in Afghanistan.

Yesterday (I live in London) there were a few cars I noticed that had flags and beeping on the road. I didn’t even link the two but googling the flag, it was Afghanistan flags.

I cannot believe we are watching people being taken into the pit of hell and there’s nothing we can do; just watch. It’s so bad.

HunterGatherer · 15/08/2021 15:17

@Proudboomer

Along with the lose of life and the injured the us and nato has spent over £800billon in the last 20 years in Afghanistan. A lot of people have got rich on corruption and mismanagement on funds. Over £80billon has been spent on building up Afghan security forces and still within days they fold and surrender. The whole thing has been a complete waste. What else could that £800billon been spent on which didn’t perpetuate a war we shouldn’t have been involved in in the first place.
Exactly. The only people who benefit are the arms dealers.
Proudboomer · 15/08/2021 15:27

And now we will have the hand wringing of how we have abandoned the people of Afghanistan and how women and children will suffer because of it.

No the west has spent 20 years, $800billon and thousands of western life’s both dead and injured to try to bring democracy and stability to a country that clearly doesn’t want it. The Afghan army trained and paid for by the west hasn’t fought for their own country so why the hell should our sons and daughters do so?
Biden has cocked up the withdrawal but the withdrawal but we need to get out and stay out now.