I have seen a very ugly side to my 'friend'

[Notmoresugar]

I would be very interested to hear how you wise and knowing ladies would deal with a friend who did this to your child (DS in my case) when you're on a short stay with her and her DS and under her roof:

Shreaking at my DS at full volume to do some heavy lifting for her (relating to her work) when he was already working for her. Her DS was doing nothing and just standing around on his phone.

Shreaking at my DS but kindly telling her DS to exit a venue at a different entrance (not relevant but they were going in the right direction anyway).

Both of our DS's were doing a sport that could hurt them if they weren't wearing appropriate clothing. Her DS had thick layers on, yet she kept telling me (3 possibly 4 times) that my DS would be ok with a thin top on.

My DS sleeping (badly) on the floor for 5 nights in her DS's room and her not asking her DS to let him have the bed for not even 1 night.

There are a few other things that I haven't mentioned.

'Friend' is under immense pressure with work and living with very difficult parents, albeit a very large house with space and land etc.

We have been friends for 15 years and this has completely put me off her, so much so that I am considering ending our relationship.

Am I being unreasonable and what would you do or say to someone like this if you were in my position. I was completely taken off-guard as it came from out of nowhere. I was a couple of hundred miles away from home and under her roof?

My DS is very laid back and fine about it, but I am not happy that she chose my DS as her personal whipping boy/scape goat.

I would never treat her DS or any of my DS's friends so badly.

Her DS goes to a private school and I know she wouldn't speak to any of her DS's school mates like that ever.

So over to you and thank you for your comments good or bad - they are all welcome and sorry it was so long!

Very interesting that freezing is hard-wired into us at a very young age where we are too weak to speak up for ourselves or to flee the situation

There are lots of things that are natural reactions when we are young. We grow out of them when we realise they are a problem.

It's a different situation and I don't know why kumquat posted because presumably she is not planning on making her guests sleep on the floor and not planning on giving less consideration to safety protocols for her friend's children than she would give to her own children.

the OP didn't come on here moaning about ham slices so it's a different set of circumstances.

If you would treat your guests well and give them a bed and the same safety equipment you'd give your own children then this thread isn't about you.

@LitPearl

It's a different situation and I don't know why kumquat posted because presumably she is not planning on making her guests sleep on the floor and not planning on giving less consideration to safety protocols for her friend's children than she would give to her own children.

the OP didn't come on here moaning about ham slices so it's a different set of circumstances.

If you would treat your guests well and give them a bed and the same safety equipment you'd give your own children then this thread isn't about you.

Nevertheless, she did post and people responded.

@kumquat365

Actually I don't think the shower is unreasonable at all.

Extremely practical to say upfront that hot water is limited.

My teens are demons for the 30 minute shower and I have definitely roared at them over it.

As for snacking on a full packet of ham from the fridge, extremely rude, likewise a full pan of bread.

If I was bringing teens with a large appetite anywhere, I would have a boot full of carby snacks for them to go through between the hosts meals.

Basic manners IMO.

Several of my children have stayed with friends families over the summer and I sent them away with bags of snacks and gifted pre made currys/ homemade pasta sauces all ready to cook.

Hosting can be a big logistical effort if it is for a crowd and shops aren't close by.

It is a very generous thing to do.

OP, was she fine before the 3rd day?

@BoredZelda

Very interesting that freezing is hard-wired into us at a very young age where we are too weak to speak up for ourselves or to flee the situation

There are lots of things that are natural reactions when we are young. We grow out of them when we realise they are a problem.

No Freeze or fight/ flight is hardwired into us . Fawn is often the result of an abusive situation and the need for survival. Freeze is actually sometimes a mechanism by which the brain processes and assesses threat and while this is happening prepares us pysiologically for fight or flight. This need to always be right or prove the Op is wrong is really tedious. Its far more complex and while the behaviour wasnt pleasant it sounds like there is far more going on here.

@billy1966
Pretty much from the start - I can see now she was a pressure-pot waiting to explode.

Possibly another factor and a bit of a drip-feed (there's always far more background to a story but I would literally be writing pages and pages):

I didn't realize how grave/bad the situation was between her and her parents until we were actually there.

Her father is narcistic and can be extremely difficult/controlling.

With hindsight I think I probably went down like a lead balloon with her because I engaged with her parents on the odd occasion they were present (the mutual ground in the house is the kitchen).

I know her parents from old (they have always been very nice to me and I like them) and I would never be rude/take sides as it would have made the situation much worse in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand having been in a similar situation myself at just how difficult her current living situation is.

For the record, I took lots of food/wine and a present for her and of course for her DS's birthday.

Someone asked upthread if my DS was working for her when she shreaked at him and turned me into stone.

Sorry I didn't phrase it properly - he wasn't actually working for her - he was helping her by lifting her very heavy work for her.

Not blaming her DS at all (he's lovely), but just to explain the situation, he was lounging about on his phone at the time and didn't volunteer at all to help.

@TempleofZoom
You are absolutely right - it was complex and there was far far more going on that I just didn't realise the gravity of at the time.

[quote Notmoresugar]@billy1966
Pretty much from the start - I can see now she was a pressure-pot waiting to explode.

Possibly another factor and a bit of a drip-feed (there's always far more background to a story but I would literally be writing pages and pages):

I didn't realize how grave/bad the situation was between her and her parents until we were actually there.

Her father is narcistic and can be extremely difficult/controlling.

With hindsight I think I probably went down like a lead balloon with her because I engaged with her parents on the odd occasion they were present (the mutual ground in the house is the kitchen).

I know her parents from old (they have always been very nice to me and I like them) and I would never be rude/take sides as it would have made the situation much worse in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand having been in a similar situation myself at just how difficult her current living situation is.

For the record, I took lots of food/wine and a present for her and of course for her DS's birthday.

Someone asked upthread if my DS was working for her when she shreaked at him and turned me into stone.

Sorry I didn't phrase it properly - he wasn't actually working for her - he was helping her by lifting her very heavy work for her.

Not blaming her DS at all (he's lovely), but just to explain the situation, he was lounging about on his phone at the time and didn't volunteer at all to help.[/quote]
Crikey!
Well it sounds like it was pretty inevitable that things would go tits up then and a huge confrontation/ row would have been the result.
It sounds like she was masking her stress/anxiety/ anger for the first 3 days and then couldnt.
Probably wise not to stay again given the toxic dynamic.
Personally I would thank her for having you to stay and also enquire as to how she was as her behaviour to your ds was some what out of character and not on.
She will either talk about it or go batshit and block you -probably the second given the toxic family situation.
Also chat to your son, apologise and tell him how shocked you were.

Very sad when things like this happen to old friendships but we cant always predict or control these things and sometimes stepping away is the best option

Ps
It might be helpful to ask MN to move this to relationships

I know her parents from old (they have always been very nice to me and I like them) and I would never be rude/take sides as it would have made the situation much worse in my opinion

Whilst I agree with the above, my parents would come across like that to people outside the family. So while you are being nice to them, in my head I would be saying "if only you knew"

I'm not excusing her behaviour, but your update does give us some understanding into her situation

@NotSorry

I know her parents from old (they have always been very nice to me and I like them) and I would never be rude/take sides as it would have made the situation much worse in my opinion

Whilst I agree with the above, my parents would come across like that to people outside the family. So while you are being nice to them, in my head I would be saying "if only you knew"

I'm not excusing her behaviour, but your update does give us some understanding into her situation

I understand that, and maybe you're right. But the OP is clear that the friend wouldn't behave like that to people at her son' boarding school so she can control it. The OP and her son don't have to be friend's punchbags. They may have been friends for years, but that doesn't give her a green light to yell at OP's son, or treat him as a lesser human being (thin vs thick clothing as an example).

I'd recommend stepping back from the friendship, rather than creating an outright break. Things change: she's a nightmare right now but she may calm down in five years or so.

I think what you've noticed is a power imbalance. Possibly, it's always been there - and you've only noticed because you mind when she treats your son badly but barely notice when she does similar to you.

Or perhaps it's new/reached a new pitch - possibly because she's stressed and the filters that help her mask such stuff with social blandishments just aren't working right now.

For whatever reason, she's over-stepped your boundaries.

So, given that the current situation/way the relationship is working just doesn't work for you, I think you have three options:

1. Say nothing but step back quietly. The relationship may just fizzle out, or you may continue it at a lower level and perhaps re-kindle at a closer level when/if she's less unpleasant.

1. Say something. You can be very forthright and risk a break - though it might have the effect of making her reassess your doormat/lesser-person status.

You can be less forthright, which may help preserve the relationship, though might rankle with you.

1. Just give the relationship up.

The question, really, is about what appeals to you most.

Ultimately, she's over-stepped your boundaries.
You don't need strangers on the internet to tell you this , or whether you're being reasonable.
It's useful to ask others - it will help you get a bearing on it all, and help you think it all through.
But ultimately, you already know that you feel she has stepped right over the boundaries that help you feel comfortable and give shape to how you treat people and how you like to be treated.

It's valid to feel very cross about that.

And don't get too stressed about not saying anything in the moment.

Very, very few of us would embark on a conversation that was unlikely to end in anything other than a confrontation when
a. A guest in the other person's home.
b. Aware the situation is ridiculously tense and simmering with ridiculous, complicated relationships.
c. Surprised.

Thank you all:
TempleofZoom
FeedingtheBirds
ThecatfromJapan
Notsorry

@Feedingthebirds1

I agree with everything you said, of course that doesn't give her the green light to behave like that. But I can also relate to the anxiety in dealing with obnoxious parents. that's all I meant

[quote NotSorry]@Feedingthebirds1

I agree with everything you said, of course that doesn't give her the green light to behave like that. But I can also relate to the anxiety in dealing with obnoxious parents. that's all I meant[/quote]
@NotSorry

Understood and agreed.

Well that update confirms that you and your son were emotionally punching bags for her stress.

Unforgivable when it involves your son.

It takes a certain type of entitlement and disrespect to imagine you can treat another person's son like that.

Definitely have a good chat with your son about it and don't hesitate to say she was disgracefully rude and explain you were so shocked it kind of silenced you but you are absolutely furious with her and yourself.

I don't believe in defending the indefensible,.

Much better for your son to hear from you, and adult that he trusts that she was an absolute cow and you are furious over it.

It will also give him an opportunity to verbalise his emotions.

There is no way she would be around a child of mine again without a heartfelt apology and explanation to HIM and me.

No one needs people like that in their lives.

Her disregard for his comfort and safety is unforgivable IMO, but I accept I have a very low threshold for appalling behaviour and zero when it comes to my children's safety.

Whatever she has done wrong I just can’t perceive why you let your kid sleep on the floor like that, why you didn’t find a b&b or hotel or even order a bed, for me that’s the worse crime. I have to be honest.

Another one supporting Kumquat. You don't know the circumstances. Where I was once realizing you'd run out of something meant a 25 mile round trip to replace it and not possible at all if late at night. Bread is a bit of an odd one - given freezers - but I have a tiny one stuffed with meat and fish etc. I do have a breadmaker but I don't want the hassle of making bread in the evening with guests in the house. As for someone running the hot water out ... aaargf. A bit like visitors not reading signs about nothing going into the loo bar loo paper which then blocks your septic tank.

Still concerned about the OP''s OP. So a 5 bedroom house in which the friend's parents are taking 3. No wonder the friend was stressed. She should not not not have shrieked at a helpful 14 year old boy and it must have shocked OP - "what on earth has he done?" would have been my response.

But memo to self and other future guests - "what can I bring?" is always useful. "What might we be doing?" is another. And as I've found with older guests it's helpful to explain sleeping/loo arrangements. As an older guest myself I'm still happy sleeping on sofas or floors but my species is getting rarer.

When you live with someone it's a totally different experience. Don't stay with her again

Your job is to protect and defend your ds.
You can't have been shocked and caught off guard every single time!come off it.
You should have taken him and left.
To allow him to be treated like that sends him a very clear message.

@crosstalk

Another one supporting Kumquat. You don't know the circumstances. Where I was once realizing you'd run out of something meant a 25 mile round trip to replace it and not possible at all if late at night. Bread is a bit of an odd one - given freezers - but I have a tiny one stuffed with meat and fish etc. I do have a breadmaker but I don't want the hassle of making bread in the evening with guests in the house. As for someone running the hot water out ... aaargf. A bit like visitors not reading signs about nothing going into the loo bar loo paper which then blocks your septic tank.

Still concerned about the OP''s OP. So a 5 bedroom house in which the friend's parents are taking 3. No wonder the friend was stressed. She should not not not have shrieked at a helpful 14 year old boy and it must have shocked OP - "what on earth has he done?" would have been my response.

But memo to self and other future guests - "what can I bring?" is always useful. "What might we be doing?" is another. And as I've found with older guests it's helpful to explain sleeping/loo arrangements. As an older guest myself I'm still happy sleeping on sofas or floors but my species is getting rarer.

If someone invites you to stay for a few days, the onus is on the host to speak up and say if they need you to bring a sleeping bag.

This is basic hosting!

@kumquat365 sorry you seem to be so stressed about the upcoming visit of your 'friend' and her DC. However you seem to be projecting an awful lot of your feelings about this visit on to the OP and her situation and they really are not the same .

Why are you even in contact with this fruit loop?

[quote shinynewapple21]@kumquat365 sorry you seem to be so stressed about the upcoming visit of your 'friend' and her DC. However you seem to be projecting an awful lot of your feelings about this visit on to the OP and her situation and they really are not the same . [/quote]
No, I was just reflecting how something fairly mild and understandable in context — for example, expressing annoyance with a child who, despite being asked to have a quick shower in the morning used all the available hot water — could be blown up to look like something dreadful here on MN.

I have comfortable double/ king size beds but whoever decides to sleep on the sofa or on a camp bed will have a less comfortable night. When my friend gets back home will she be complaining on a public message board that she and her children weren't made welcome and one of her sons was forced to rough it?

Last time this friend (who's a real friend going back years) came, we'd agreed in advance on a tight itinerary which, because of tide times, didn't leave room for manoeuvre. I'd bought a load of good ham from the deli and a large loaf so that I could make up lunchtime sandwiches while they had breakfast. When I went to get the loaf out of the cupboard there were only a couple of slices left and most of the ham had gone. Her sons had arrived hungry and I'd told them to make some toast to hold them till we had dinner. They'd each had the equivalent of four rounds of ham sandwiches. I made it clear I wasn't pleased. My friend was appalled by their behaviour but the OP's first post made me imagine her describe me as 'shreaking' at them on a message board.

I'm trying to point out that things can look very different depending which side of the fence you're standing. I was particularly struck by the fact that the OP's son was completely unbothered by things his mother regarded as dreadful. I like the sound of the OP's son.

We've had a lovely afternoon and evening here. I've left them on the beach with a driftwood fire, making dampers and looking for shooting stars, while I've come back to the house to hose down the wetsuits, make overnight oats for tomorrow's breakfast and look for ideas for what to do tomorrow because the weather forecast is worse than expected. Being a good host is ruddy hard work.