I have seen a very ugly side to my 'friend'

[Notmoresugar]

I would be very interested to hear how you wise and knowing ladies would deal with a friend who did this to your child (DS in my case) when you're on a short stay with her and her DS and under her roof:

Shreaking at my DS at full volume to do some heavy lifting for her (relating to her work) when he was already working for her. Her DS was doing nothing and just standing around on his phone.

Shreaking at my DS but kindly telling her DS to exit a venue at a different entrance (not relevant but they were going in the right direction anyway).

Both of our DS's were doing a sport that could hurt them if they weren't wearing appropriate clothing. Her DS had thick layers on, yet she kept telling me (3 possibly 4 times) that my DS would be ok with a thin top on.

My DS sleeping (badly) on the floor for 5 nights in her DS's room and her not asking her DS to let him have the bed for not even 1 night.

There are a few other things that I haven't mentioned.

'Friend' is under immense pressure with work and living with very difficult parents, albeit a very large house with space and land etc.

We have been friends for 15 years and this has completely put me off her, so much so that I am considering ending our relationship.

Am I being unreasonable and what would you do or say to someone like this if you were in my position. I was completely taken off-guard as it came from out of nowhere. I was a couple of hundred miles away from home and under her roof?

My DS is very laid back and fine about it, but I am not happy that she chose my DS as her personal whipping boy/scape goat.

I would never treat her DS or any of my DS's friends so badly.

Her DS goes to a private school and I know she wouldn't speak to any of her DS's school mates like that ever.

So over to you and thank you for your comments good or bad - they are all welcome and sorry it was so long!

@Italiangreyhound

It's interesting that sometimes it seems people often want to make sense of the situation, by assuming that the OP might be in the wrong. Like she should have brought a blow up mattress etc.

But why? If someone invited me to stay in a big house with multiple bedrooms I certainly would not assume I needed to bring a mattress. I might say shall I bring anything, and if I wasn't told to bring it, I would not bring it.

Just trying to make sense of a strange sounding situation

5 nights is a very long time to stay in someone elses house

She might have had noone in the house since the start of the pandemic

She might be incredibly stressed about the whole situation

Wow, sounds like she sees you as lower status and I guess we all can be susceptible to admiring those who have 'more' but she goes right ahead and kicks DOWN, but as you suspect, wouldn't talk to her son's private school chums' mothers like this.

Are you still there? I'd be honest with her seeing as how the friendship is at a crossroads. There's nothing to be gained from saying ''oh fine fine!'.
Tell her ''I was shocked that you were so unconcerned with my son's safety while your own son had all the right equipment and you spoke to me, and him unnecessarily sharply'''.
If she defends that behavior just say ''ok'' and carry on processing.

I've had that moment too, where you think to yourself, omg, you're pushing 50 and you are giving me the silent treatment???

Some people behave so terribly it is quite shocking :-(

I still don’t think ‘ending the friendship’ at a distance because of reinforcement (from MN) that your friend was a bad host is good role-modeling. It certainly isn’t the solution to future friend issues- yours or your son’s.

Assertiveness is about learning strategies that help you set boundaries, then act maturely when and where they get pushed. Before it gets ‘terminal’. Letting other people know what you consider acceptable (or not) with a smile and a firm tone. Acting in the moment, for sure, but also setting up situations with forethought, like asking (and double-checking) about sleeping arrangements and activities for the stay.

Ignoring all that stuff isn’t being ‘easy going’ or ‘delightfully spontaneous’. It is likely to end you up in the position you are now. Ruining your week, your son’s week, and a long-standing friendship.

At least set up a video chat and acknowledge your lack of ‘speaking up’ when you outline concerns for the future of the friendship. Try some assertiveness strategies even now, for practice. She’ll likely hang up on you, she sounds the type, but no matter. It’s about you dealing with your passivity in a more adult way. Any practice is good.

@WorraLiberty

yes I was present, but her horrible manner completely made me freeze because it took me unaware.

What, every single time??

Do you think the reason your 14 year old isn't politely speaking up for himself, might be because you've never set that example?

What are you like when other adults treat him like this?

Freezing is a perfectly normal reaction to a situation like this. Its either fight/ flight or freeze-its hardwired into us. Stop telling the OP she is wrong.

Chalk it up to experience , almost no-one would invite someone to stay in a five bedroomed house and not tell them there were no available beds . Some the things took you by surprise and I doubt every single part of it was awful , or you would have packed and left straight away .
I think the problem is your lack of assertiveness and I understand that as I am exactly the same , kicking yourself for not saying anything at the time . I would tell how how some aspects of the visit made you feel , then its its dependent on her reply if you carry on the friendship or not.

Op, I don't think you could have possibly known this was going to turn out so badly after being friends for fifteen years, you did not arrive feeling guarded or armed or prepared for how she was going to be. So I am not surprised you felt completely frozen by her behaviour, which sounds out of character (otherwise you would have terminated this friendship long ago) When you are staying in someone else's home it is much harder to be assertive, than whilst in a neutral territory where is easier to be up front.

I think you could have cut the stay short when it was obvious your son was uncomfortable and her behaviour was totally unreasonable. A lovely to see you, but ds is so tall now the bean bag bed is going to damage his back, thank you for having us type of conversation.

I would spend some proper time with ds now discussing what you would both do differently/next time and devise a response that feels comfortable and assertive to you. I would also start modelling 'difficult' conversations, sending food back, asking for a refund, telling someone their manner is rude etc so he can see what it looks like to be firm, polite and expectant of good service.

Thinking about your friend, I would have a conversation with her, there might be far more to this than you know. No excuse whatsoever for her piss poor behaviour of course. I would tell you were very disappointed with the way she spoke to your son and take it from there. She sounds like she is blowing up with stress with her work, with her parents living in her house and I have a feeling your stay tipped the balance and she couldn't cope. By talking to her about the way she treated you, pref in front of your son you will go a long way to putting this right. You can leave it on a nice note with her, if it is right to do so, or you can tell her the friendship is over if appropriate. Either way some closure would be good either way.

Next time check out of shitty situations immediately.

Freezing is a perfectly normal reaction to a situation like this.

I agree.

Our early experiences in life (often forgotten ones), hardwire automatic responses into us. "Freezing" is learned when we are repeatedly put into situations where we are to weak to fight, and have nowhere to flee to (and the fourth "F" - "fawning" doesn't work. It can also be learned from the adults wo parent us - OP is in danger of teaching her son this response, and I'm not saying this as a criticism - it's a fact of life). It frequently can occur under stress - especially when it is unexpected, and if it is our natural go-to" default response from an early age we have to consciously unlearn it and develop more appropriate attitudes.

OP will realise from this that she needs to develop other defence mechanisms, and I'm sure she will as she is aware that she should have been more assertive with her "friend".

I think it’s too late for home truths tbh. These are erratic and disorganised humans. Her parents, so called friend and 14 yo. Totally persuaded they are correct and everyone else should bend to their will.

If you confront her, it will not make a jot of difference but may make you feel worse. Got the t-shirt on that one myself. So if you still want to say something, do it in full knowledge you will get tenfold back even if said kindly and diplomatically as she sounds like the sort of person quite willing to upset everyone else but unable to take it herself. I expect you recognise this already and is quite possibly why you didn’t confront her in the first instance.

In your shoes, I would the learning for yourself to stand up to a person in future by extricating yourselves from the situation. And I would talk to your ds about what you could and should have some differently and how he felt. Then perhaps suggest you never see her again and ask what does he want to do about the boy.

In a few hours my 'friend' and her two teenage children will be arriving to stay with me. One of them will have to sleep on a camping mattress on the floor or on the sofa because although I have two spare beds (both doubles) apparently they can't share a room, let alone a bed. My sofa bed is okay but designed for occasional use.

We will be body-boarding and surfing if the weather is good enough and we'll also probably do a big walk around the coast and possibly some rock climbing. There's the possibility of other activities too. I asked them to bring appropriate gear but I don't know if they will. I've had a guest turn up with a baby to stay for three nights with only two pretty, flimsy changes of clothing and half the number of nappies needed, so it's always difficult to judge.

We have a limited amount of hot water in the tank here for showers in the morning. I will warn them in advance, but if one of the teens takes a 30-minute hot shower (as they did last time they visited) I may well shout at them. And if one of the teens eats a large packet of ham or an entire loaf without informing me (I said he could have some toast if he was hungry) I may also say something sharp. Because I've planned lunches and dinners and I'm paying for everything.

I really, really don't like passive aggressive people who come and stay with me, say nothing in the moment and then days or weeks later get huffy with me because of something I did in the moment for good reason.

I don't like the sound of you, OP. You sound like the kind of person who'll find fault with anything anyone does.

@SpeakingFranglais

Was is paintballing?

That hurts if you aren’t padded up

But if it was paint balling the company running it provides protective gear.

So if you took the boys paint balling... You didn't think to encourage your son to wear a thick layer. She, seeing him in a t-shirt, but knowing that he'd be provided with a protective layer by the organiser, said he'd be all right. But he subsequently decided to wear a thicker layer. And now you're complaining that somehow she was prepared to see your son injured? Maybe she thought that at 14 your son was old enough to sort his own clothing out, or that perhaps you wouldn't want her interfering in what he wore? Perhaps whatever she does, you'll find a problem with it?

@kumquat365

In a few hours my 'friend' and her two teenage children will be arriving to stay with me. One of them will have to sleep on a camping mattress on the floor or on the sofa because although I have two spare beds (both doubles) apparently they can't share a room, let alone a bed. My sofa bed is okay but designed for occasional use.

We will be body-boarding and surfing if the weather is good enough and we'll also probably do a big walk around the coast and possibly some rock climbing. There's the possibility of other activities too. I asked them to bring appropriate gear but I don't know if they will. I've had a guest turn up with a baby to stay for three nights with only two pretty, flimsy changes of clothing and half the number of nappies needed, so it's always difficult to judge.

We have a limited amount of hot water in the tank here for showers in the morning. I will warn them in advance, but if one of the teens takes a 30-minute hot shower (as they did last time they visited) I may well shout at them. And if one of the teens eats a large packet of ham or an entire loaf without informing me (I said he could have some toast if he was hungry) I may also say something sharp. Because I've planned lunches and dinners and I'm paying for everything.

I really, really don't like passive aggressive people who come and stay with me, say nothing in the moment and then days or weeks later get huffy with me because of something I did in the moment for good reason.

I don't like the sound of you, OP. You sound like the kind of person who'll find fault with anything anyone does.

Bit harsh! Maybe don’t have guests if they annoy you so much.

OP, I’d not contact this friend again. When she next calls you I would very coolly tell her I can no longer be friends with her because the way she spoke to your child was just awful. Yes you should have spoken to her at the time but you were shocked. In any case, it doesn’t matter now as you’ve seen a horrible side to her and do not want to continue the friendship. Phone down and block.

She doesn’t deserve a right to reply and there isn’t anything else to say.

@Notmoresugar - tbh, it sounds like your ds’s height has something to do with your friend’s weird behaviour - 6’ 3” at age 14 is extremely tall! She was behaving as though someone that large might need shouting at for her voice to be capable of reaching the height of his ears, appearing to assume he had thicker, tougher skin than the average 14-year old, and also assuming he could lift heavy loads for her without breaking a sweat!

@Italiangreyhound

It's interesting that sometimes it seems people often want to make sense of the situation, by assuming that the OP might be in the wrong. Like she should have brought a blow up mattress etc.

But why? If someone invited me to stay in a big house with multiple bedrooms I certainly would not assume I needed to bring a mattress. I might say shall I bring anything, and if I wasn't told to bring it, I would not bring it.

100%

I would actually have no problem with the sleeping arrangements- sleeping on the floor is pretty normal in my circlle for teenagers (11 of them after a party at one friend's house last week, for example) and I still (almost 60) sleep on sofa cushions at my brother's. You sayy your DS wasn't bothered, and you did have a sofa bed.

But you don't have to put up with being yelled at again.

I would just let the friendship lapse. If you are invited again, just say 'Oh no, you don't really have room for us now, do you?'

If she invites you and /or your DS round for an activity, then you could say 'You seemed so stressed last time - we won't impose again'. If she protests, then ' You dod shout at DS a lot which is really not like you, so I think it's better for us to let you just get on with things'.

Having said that, if your DS wants to continue to do things with hets (it sounds like they have their own independent friendship after 14 years) then why shouldn't he? He is old enough to make his own choices on this, I think.

I wouldn't allow the screeching, I would say something each and every time, but in honesty I would have left after the first time it happened

Nah I wouldn't want to be around her, can't stand people who give their kids premium treatment and treat others as shit.

My mum knew a childminder once who would serve her kids Heinz beans and buy the cheapest shittest ones and serve them separate foods. Disgusting behaviour.

The DS sounds equally bad. Having a guest to stay and making them sleep on floor/beanbag instead of offering the bed is bloody rude.

Freezing is a perfectly normal reaction to a situation like this.
Its either fight/ flight or freeze-its hardwired into us.
Stop telling the OP she is wrong.

Once? Absolutely normal to freeze. Multiple times over multiple days, so many in fact that she's ending the friendship? Not normal at all! Who allows their child to be "shrieked" at multiple times over multiple days without speaking up?!

OP also hasn't said whether the two 14 year olds are actually friends or pushed together because the mums are friends. Also what work was her son was doing for the friend? Was he being paid? Did he go there to purposefully to help out or just get roped in? Whose idea was it for him to help, his or the OP's? Was the friend's son supposed to be helping out as well or was OP's son just helping due to his height? Was OP's son doing something dangerous when he was "shrieked" at? What was the friend actually "shrieking"? It's quite an extreme thing to do for no apparent reason. Or was he doing something unsafe or silly and the friend got cross? It's really hard to tell from just one side of the story.

The bed situation is neither here nor there to me personally, I've slept on many a friends floor as a teenager with just a blanket under me, or if I was really lucky, a spare duvet! Also, there are beanbags and then there are beanbags...

@54321nought

5 nights is a very long time to stay in someone elses house

She might have had noone in the house since the start of the pandemic

She might be incredibly stressed about the whole situation

Don't invite people to stay then?

@PricklesAndSpikes

Freezing is a perfectly normal reaction to a situation like this. Its either fight/ flight or freeze-its hardwired into us. Stop telling the OP she is wrong.

Once? Absolutely normal to freeze. Multiple times over multiple days, so many in fact that she's ending the friendship? Not normal at all! Who allows their child to be "shrieked" at multiple times over multiple days without speaking up?!

OP also hasn't said whether the two 14 year olds are actually friends or pushed together because the mums are friends. Also what work was her son was doing for the friend? Was he being paid? Did he go there to purposefully to help out or just get roped in? Whose idea was it for him to help, his or the OP's? Was the friend's son supposed to be helping out as well or was OP's son just helping due to his height? Was OP's son doing something dangerous when he was "shrieked" at? What was the friend actually "shrieking"? It's quite an extreme thing to do for no apparent reason. Or was he doing something unsafe or silly and the friend got cross? It's really hard to tell from just one side of the story.

The bed situation is neither here nor there to me personally, I've slept on many a friends floor as a teenager with just a blanket under me, or if I was really lucky, a spare duvet! Also, there are beanbags and then there are beanbags...

Well it sounds to me that this is completely out of character for the friend and she was in shock but I take your point. I would have made my excuses and left early. I think its highly likely that the friend is heading for some sort of breakdown given all the stress she is under. In this case I think a confrontation would have ended in a huge screaming row. The friend is provoking/ goading i.e recycling her stress/ anger/ misery about her current life onto the Op and her son. The aim of which is to have a huge screaming row by which she relieves her stress and the OP is the bad guy. Im not in anyway condoning the friends behaviour btw but in a usually happy friendship it might explain what happened.

@kumquat365

In a few hours my 'friend' and her two teenage children will be arriving to stay with me. One of them will have to sleep on a camping mattress on the floor or on the sofa because although I have two spare beds (both doubles) apparently they can't share a room, let alone a bed. My sofa bed is okay but designed for occasional use.

We will be body-boarding and surfing if the weather is good enough and we'll also probably do a big walk around the coast and possibly some rock climbing. There's the possibility of other activities too. I asked them to bring appropriate gear but I don't know if they will. I've had a guest turn up with a baby to stay for three nights with only two pretty, flimsy changes of clothing and half the number of nappies needed, so it's always difficult to judge.

We have a limited amount of hot water in the tank here for showers in the morning. I will warn them in advance, but if one of the teens takes a 30-minute hot shower (as they did last time they visited) I may well shout at them. And if one of the teens eats a large packet of ham or an entire loaf without informing me (I said he could have some toast if he was hungry) I may also say something sharp. Because I've planned lunches and dinners and I'm paying for everything.

I really, really don't like passive aggressive people who come and stay with me, say nothing in the moment and then days or weeks later get huffy with me because of something I did in the moment for good reason.

I don't like the sound of you, OP. You sound like the kind of person who'll find fault with anything anyone does.

Why have you put 'friend' in inverted commas?

Op you need to take personal responsibility for your actions. You let your son sleep on the floor. Did nothing about it. You stood and did nothing when he was shouted at. It’s still your responsibility on his clothing and safety.

Yes end the friendship but you need to own your part in this.