How do Scottish parents feel about what 4 year olds are being taught

[Namechangednotanewuser]

Name changed for this.

So the Scottish govt decided that 4 year olds should be taught about gender dysphoria. Does a 4 year old really need to think about this or be taught about it. Is there anyone you know, looking back wishes that they had been taught this at 4? Who really thinks this is a good idea. Has every other generation been disadvantaged by not having this relentlessly pushed upon them as children. Just cannot get my head around it, and cannot imagine any Scottish parents being ok with this. But they clearly are or otherwise it wouldn’t be happening.

@Kittii

What does genderfluid mean?

Genderfluid refers to someone whose gender identity changes over time. A genderfluid person can identify as any gender, or combination of genders at any given time. Their gender can change at random or it may vary in response to different circumstances. One's gender can change over the course of hours, days, weeks, months, or years. For some people their gender changes on a somewhat consistent "schedule", for others their gender changes at random times. Some genderfluid people can be fluid between all genders, or a large amount of genders. Other genderfluid people are fluid between a small handful of genders.

Genderfluid can be a gender identity on its own or it can be used as an umbrella term to describe anyone whose gender changes. For example, a bigender person who feels more strongly male sometimes and more strongly female other times may identify as genderfluid.

Genderfluid people may also identify as multigender, non-binary and/or transgender. Genderfluid people who feel as though only part of their gender is fluid may identify as demifluid. People who feel like the intensity of their gender changes or feel they are sometimes agender may identify as genderflux.

lgbta.wikia.org/wiki/Genderfluid

The best way to give EVERY single child in Scotland the best chance is sort out the fuck up that the SNP has made of the education system.

A better education will give those children who do need to change gender a better chance of succeeding in life.

Instead, they are disadvantaging every child in Scotland, females especially.

I get it, Independence is important and the be all and end all for so many- but seriously get a grip and look at the damage these people are doing.

I dont understand how a child can be gender fluid. . Sorry and i genuinely dont mean to offend and would really like to learn.

A child remains the same sex, so gender fluid means they are Sometimes choosing stereotypical male gender roles and sometimes female. But if we just let children be children without the stereotyping in the first place they could freely do as they please without the added issues of labels and declaring them self male or female.

Young children only know what we teach them about gender.

Please dont all attack me as i am genuinely trying to understand and respect everyones opinions.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine sorry crosspost and thanks for your explanation.

@PicaK

I think gender dysphoria is real. I think if it saves a small child from feeling suicidal it's a good thing. I can only imagine it's an incredibly emotional and hard thing to parent... so much guilt at having let the wrong call be made after birth. Showing signs by 4 and having battled through seeing Drs and being referred - It's hardly something people are going to rush into on a whim.

WTF do you mean by "let the wrong call be made at birth"?

Do you think babies are born aware of gender, & that the baby's parents ought to what ... have a psychic revelation that their child is going to wish to change gender at some time in the future?

I'm finding it really hard to understand what genderfluid means. What does it mean for your gender to change hour by hour? And what does "people who feel as though only part of their gender is fluid" mean?

And how can you identify as a "combination of genders"?

Can't people just be their own personalities and have their own likes and dislikes without having to label themselves according to constantly changing steteotypes?

Yeah, I asked exactly the same

Interestingly, I feel that I could technically say that I am not the gender I was assigned at birth. I was my mum's first child and she really wanted a girl, so convinced herself she'd have a boy. When I made an appearance, the nurse said "so look what it is?"
And my mum, without looking, said, "IT'S A BOY!"

I think it's disgraceful. It's literally forcing them to have an opinion when they're little more than toddlers. SNP are a shitshow of horrors so totally unsurprising.

@Kittii

I'm finding it really hard to understand what genderfluid means. What does it mean for your gender to change hour by hour? And what does "people who feel as though only part of their gender is fluid" mean?

Maybe it means you identify as running water??

"A 21 year old is legally an adult. Regardless of your relationship, you do not have parental responsibility.

If a child is being abused that is a matter for social services and there are procedures that must be followed.

Your post gives the impression that you haven’t thought about this issue in much depth."

He's been abused his whole life and this is just something else to use as an excuse for abuse. Thankfully, he's managed to get his money paid to him instead of his parents recently. I realise I don't have parental responsibility, but I do care about him. I've thought so deeply about this issue, you wouldn't believe. Most young trans people who commit suicide do so as a result of parental abuse. I actually don't understand why people can't support their children however they turn out.

@Kittii i agree

I really dont want to offend but am struggling to understand.

At birth i was born female. With that came certain expectations by society as a female, my gender role Was defined as female. I only know what it feels like to be me and i conform to some of these female gender roles but i also dont and technically i also conform to some male gender roles and others i dont.

Sorry i am struggling to explain. But i only know what i feel so how do i know if i feel male or female. How does a child know they are feeling male then female, really they are just feeling being them.

Please dont take offence anyone as i am genuinely supportive of everyone and am just-trying to understand

@Jellycatspyjamas

Some parents are abusive, but this guidance assumes parents aren’t able to respond in a caring, measured way and also assumes that the only right way to support children exploring their gender identity is affirmation and social transitioning. The parent who supports their child while taking a watchful waiting stance (which is shown to be appropriate for children) are labelled as transphobic and abusive, and simply in need of education.

It’s gaslighting in the extreme and sets child against parent and parent against school. How can that possibly be a good place to work from.

Yes I agree that this is wrong.

@Wakeupin2022 never in my life as a mumsnetter have I agreed so much with a post.

Well said

@TheLovelinessOfDemons

"A 21 year old is legally an adult. Regardless of your relationship, you do not have parental responsibility.

If a child is being abused that is a matter for social services and there are procedures that must be followed.

Your post gives the impression that you haven’t thought about this issue in much depth."

He's been abused his whole life and this is just something else to use as an excuse for abuse. Thankfully, he's managed to get his money paid to him instead of his parents recently. I realise I don't have parental responsibility, but I do care about him. I've thought so deeply about this issue, you wouldn't believe. Most young trans people who commit suicide do so as a result of parental abuse. I actually don't understand why people can't support their children however they turn out.

There is no data that shows that trans people are more likely to commit suicide, and very, very few children commit suicide.

I think studies have shown that people who have suffered from abuse may be more likely to suffer from gender dysphoria.

However it does not follow that all children who have gender dysphoria have abusive parents.

However, this guidance goes beyond helping children with gender dysphoria and promotes an ideological stance on gender identity.

I think at four kids should just be kids. It saddens me that any child that young is questioning their gender identity. Maybe if we stopped as a society with the bollocks that gender is and stuck to sex based differences- biology, fewer kids would feel out of place. Some still would due to bodily dysphasia but if we had a truly gender neutral approaches (not sex neutral) for kids when so young would surely help.

@Jellycatspyjamas i agree. Unless you completely bow down and agree to everything including transitioning you are accused of being unsupportive, transphobic,

But most parents want whats best for their children. And waiting to see what happens is not an easy option either but is often the right one. I would support my children in whatever they choose but i will not support my child to physically alter there body until they are an adult and can make that measured decision under their own merit. Just like i wouldn't let my 4 year old drive my car or let my 6 year old head off to a nightclub for a night out. When they are old enough they make these decisions for themselves and then i support them to make sure they are carried out safely.

@jellybe

I think at four kids should just be kids. It saddens me that any child that young is questioning their gender identity. Maybe if we stopped as a society with the bollocks that gender is and stuck to sex based differences- biology, fewer kids would feel out of place. Some still would due to bodily dysphasia but if we had a truly gender neutral approaches (not sex neutral) for kids when so young would surely help.

I agree. This situation has been created. There are those who would argue that "trans children" have always existed when in fact this issue has been created in modern society, and very recently at that.

There is a vanishingly small section of the population who will decide to live as though they are the opposite sex and are free to do so in adulthood. That does not mean we should be pushing what amounts to the political ideologies of gender identity and self-identification onto primary aged children.

@Soberanne

I dont understand how a child can be gender fluid. . Sorry and i genuinely dont mean to offend and would really like to learn.

A child remains the same sex, so gender fluid means they are Sometimes choosing stereotypical male gender roles and sometimes female. But if we just let children be children without the stereotyping in the first place they could freely do as they please without the added issues of labels and declaring them self male or female.

Young children only know what we teach them about gender.

Please dont all attack me as i am genuinely trying to understand and respect everyones opinions.

My genderfluid child is 14 and has identified as genderfluid for about 2 years. He's already said that he didn't know what gender was when he was 4. I don't know when my trans son started identifying as trans, as he lived with my DM and stepdad and police advised we went NC when DD1 was 18, because of a criminal investigation. He told me when he was 25.

Just like i wouldn't let my 4 year old drive my car or let my 6 year old head off to a nightclub for a night out. When they are old enough they make these decisions for themselves and then i support them to make sure they are carried out safely.

Indeed, my 8 year old can’t decide whether he wants peas or carrots for dinner but can decide he wants to live as a girl? I don’t think so.

Absolutely agree with the statement kids should just be kids.

At that age they are so young and should just be left to be kids.

@Wakeupin2022

The best way to give EVERY single child in Scotland the best chance is sort out the fuck up that the SNP has made of the education system.

A better education will give those children who do need to change gender a better chance of succeeding in life.

Instead, they are disadvantaging every child in Scotland, females especially.

I get it, Independence is important and the be all and end all for so many- but seriously get a grip and look at the damage these people are doing.

Unfortunately a huge number of Scottish people want independence enough that they are blinkered and do not see the SNP for what they are. Most SNP voters are ex-labour voters. Labour managed to royally fuck up their reputation in Scotland. Everyone I know who votes SNP do so because they don't see an alternative, they are left leaning and think the SNP represents their views, and they are Labour refugees.

The SNP certainly don't get my vote.

"However it does not follow that all children who have gender dysphoria have abusive parents."

I didn't say that it did. I said "many". As I have 2 children with gender dysphoria, why would I say that? And I didn't know about either of them until after they'd already come to the conclusion that they identified this way.

@GromblesofGrimbledon very well said. People can choose to live as they choose and plenty do. I do not live as a stereotypical woman but i am not living as a man either. I just live my life as i choose.

However there are people who are trans and need to make that change to live their lives as fully as they can. Many of these people as adults state they knew as young children so we need to have the measures in place to support the children when they are young so they dont go through the years of mental torture many trans adults have.

Its about putting in the right education and the right support at the right time. Not forcing it on Children and young people who are trying to find their way in what is a very confusing world.