How do Scottish parents feel about what 4 year olds are being taught

[Namechangednotanewuser]

Name changed for this.

So the Scottish govt decided that 4 year olds should be taught about gender dysphoria. Does a 4 year old really need to think about this or be taught about it. Is there anyone you know, looking back wishes that they had been taught this at 4? Who really thinks this is a good idea. Has every other generation been disadvantaged by not having this relentlessly pushed upon them as children. Just cannot get my head around it, and cannot imagine any Scottish parents being ok with this. But they clearly are or otherwise it wouldn’t be happening.

@TheKeatingFive

It’s a bit horrifying really. I grew up in the 80s. No one would have turned a hair at girls playing with ‘boys’ toys/role playing ‘boys’ roles/preferring to play with boys. Or vice versa.

Yet now this is a problem that needs ‘solving’?

Yep. I'd have been straight on the path the gender reassignment if this nonsense existed when I was growing up.

Oh but we were all so wrong. Those poor children (who must’ve all committed suicide by now surely) were living a life or torment and lies!

I f we are definetly taking a step back. I was a child in the 80s and we just played. Of course we knew that there were boys and girls but no one cared. We never thought about gender in fact we never even knew what the word was. Many Male pop stars etc Worse makep dressed flamboyantly, men worse dresses, woman wore suits, as i childi never questioned it. We are putting these terms And ideas in childrens heads.

Of course if a child is genuinely question the sex they were born and its seriously impacting the child's life then we support that chid. It not about saying wether trans people exist, of course they do and always have and they should be able to live fully in a way that makes them happy, but starting at 4 years old and encouraging teenagers to change gender is just crazy.

There is also a huge difference between wanting to change sex and wanting to change gender. The two need to be seperated.

There is also a huge difference between wanting to change sex and wanting to change gender.

Well you can’t technically do the former. For starters.

There is also a huge difference between wanting to change sex and wanting to change gender. The two need to be seperated

Hard to separate them when changing gender seems to mean being treated as if you have changed sex.

Letting kids wear and play what they want whilst respecting social norms and boundaries of using the spaces and facilities fir your biological sex wouldn't be an issue.

But that's not what's happening l.

@TheKeatingFive sorty yes i agree, i just meant that on a physical level, not every trans person wants to physically change their body, others do.

@Whatwouldscullydo i agree. But there are people who identify as the opposite sex and may make physical changes to their body. These people have the right to be included and also have a safe space. Children and teens who choose to be the opposite sex for whatever reasons need supported and provisions need to be in place to protect them as well as everyone else

Being female or male is not categorised by how much surgery you have. That is accommodated for already as everyone has a sex.

Plus 90 percent or more of male to female trans people keep their male parts. When you say accommodated you surely don't mean in the womens?

We are talking about children. All childrens needs should be met and all children have the right for their school to be a safe inclusive environment. Regardless.

Schools need to find ways to ensure that happens.

And children take the messages they learn I'm school out into the world.

If you affirm their bodies are wrong they will believe it.

If you tell then there's a special group of adults who are exempt from safguarding policies they will believe that too.

The accommodation has to take that onto account too

I, for one, do not trust our First Minister .. I do not Vote for her and I fear where her governing policies will take Scotland in the future..

I love Scotland ... but I don't like the path she is on ... 😩

When the NHS says on its website that cases of gender dysphoria in young children are rare - they mean practically non-existent:

'Signs of gender dysphoria in children
A diagnosis of gender dysphoria in childhood is rare.
Most children who seem confused about their gender identity when young will not continue to feel the same way beyond puberty. Role playing is not unusual in young children.
However, ask a GP for advice if you are worried your child is showing signs of being depressed, anxious or withdrawn.
You might want to ask if these behaviours have been noticed at school before seeking advice from a GP.'

But even they are surprisingly woolly on what the hell it even means. What behaviours would the school be looking for? How would a teacher know how to diagnose GD beyond 'well he always plays with the girls' or 'he likes the pink toys'. This movement is beyond irresponsible. Social transition = a much higher likelihood of a lifelong medical pathway as it's incredibly hard for these kids to desist once their new social identify becomes established. Why are any young children being encouraged to think like this. I've honestly got to the point where I view it as wicked. A fast track to breast binding, pubert blockers, mastectomies, castrations and lifelong infertility.

@KittenKong

Oh but we were all so wrong. Those poor children (who must’ve all committed suicide by now surely) were living a life or torment and lies!

It's funny how they don't show up in the suicide stats and even Mermaids seem to struggle to find evidence of any kids killing themselves over this.

Thinking back to when I was a kid at school (in good old transalba): - the tomboys are now straight-with-kids or gay, the ‘gay’ boys are now (mostly) straight-with-kids or gay, some ‘straights’ are now out gay, none are now ‘living their true life’ as trans and none have committed suicide (there was a sad case about a dozen years ago but it was old fashioned shorty bullying, no sex/gender issues).

The attention seeking cutters have now become pretty stable mums, the goths hold down jobs in accountancy and estate agency.

I went went the name ‘Bill’ sometimes. I forget my sisters ‘boy’ name (I think it was Tom). She would have been ripe pickings for this lot of we were kids now (and what she did, I did, regardless).

@kittenkong i agree.
I know a few people in my circLe of school friends who would have been ripe picking too, but we had the freedom to explore and to make choices without labels or pressure. And thats exactly what kids really need. Safe environments to explore their own position in the world without prejudice or pressure

I don’t understand how they can agree that this is the best way - potentially injuring and messing up a high % of children for what? Potentially zero of the class year ‘finding themselves’?

So what happens if your primary 1 teacher decides that Jenny really had kids a desire to be Kenny? It goes on their record, do they then contact social services? Recommend psychologists and ‘charity groups’, set up meetings with the child and ‘advisors’/ doctors? What is the scope of their responsibility?

Has kids = harbours (it’s wine o’clock here...)

It looks like the gvt is using an infographic to ‘prove’ that this is the best way forward. It’s from a Canadian study - of paid respondents, whose average age is just shy of 30, and the conclusion is NOT as the Scottish government is stating.

HOW ARE THEY GETTING AWAY WITH THIS???

@KittenKong

It looks like the gvt is using an infographic to ‘prove’ that this is the best way forward. It’s from a Canadian study - of paid respondents, whose average age is just shy of 30, and the conclusion is NOT as the Scottish government is stating.

HOW ARE THEY GETTING AWAY WITH THIS???

Interesting analysis of it on Twitter.

twitter.com/gentlemanbroad/status/1426476745662902273?s=19

This poster took part in the study. She's now a detransitioned woman.

twitter.com/somenuancepls/status/1426579099775078401?s=19

@KittenKong

I don’t understand how they can agree that this is the best way - potentially injuring and messing up a high % of children for what? Potentially zero of the class year ‘finding themselves’?

So what happens if your primary 1 teacher decides that Jenny really had kids a desire to be Kenny? It goes on their record, do they then contact social services? Recommend psychologists and ‘charity groups’, set up meetings with the child and ‘advisors’/ doctors? What is the scope of their responsibility?

Well also, why are they being encouraged by a government to stage an intervention when NHS evidence suggests that almost all kids who display gender dysphoria (which they admit is extremely rare anyway) grow out of it by the time they reach puberty. Why then encourage lay people to transition kids?!

It’s very striking that on one hand organisations like Mermaids stress the idea that surgical and hormonal intervention is necessary as soon as possible to enable ‘passing’ as the opposite sex, and on the other hand more and more people are identifying as gender fluid or non binary.

So many different strands are lumped together, and any investigation - why the increase in teenage girls identifying as trans? What are links to conditions like autism? - runs the risk of being labelled as transphobic and shut down.

‘Queer’ and ‘trans’ now include pretty much everyone on the planet, and seem to function as tribal identifiers rather than objective and coherent definitions.

I feel that there is a strong instinct within the SNP to adopt policies that can differentiate Scotland from rUK so I think that adds an additional tribal dimension.

The SNP had a really weird attitude to all this. They’ve had the drag queen, Flo Job, in schools, and has summer drag schools for primary and secondary kids.

Not that drag is trans, but it all seems quite unusual to me anyway.

@merrymouse

I feel that there is a strong instinct within the SNP to adopt policies that can differentiate Scotland from rUK so I think that adds an additional tribal dimension.

Bingo!

The SNP will do anything they can to show they are more enlightened, more progressive, so much more wonderful in every possible way that England. They will push any agenda to its limits to say "look how much better we are than those lot."

The same fighting to be the first to do anything happens amongst different council authorities too, particularly in the education sector. They clamour to be the leading light for whatever new madcap pilot scheme is trendy each year and the kids are the guinea pigs for it. Then they drop it the next year for the new trendy thing in education.

Most young kids prefer to pretend to be airplanes or some magical creature, should we start identifying them as unicorns and jumbo jets?