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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How do Scottish parents feel about what 4 year olds are being taught

284 replies

Namechangednotanewuser · 13/08/2021 21:56

Name changed for this.

So the Scottish govt decided that 4 year olds should be taught about gender dysphoria. Does a 4 year old really need to think about this or be taught about it. Is there anyone you know, looking back wishes that they had been taught this at 4? Who really thinks this is a good idea. Has every other generation been disadvantaged by not having this relentlessly pushed upon them as children. Just cannot get my head around it, and cannot imagine any Scottish parents being ok with this. But they clearly are or otherwise it wouldn’t be happening.

OP posts:
Soberanne · 14/08/2021 11:04

If i found out the school knew my young teenage or pre teen was binding and never informed me i would be livid.

Waitwhat23 · 14/08/2021 11:04

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine Very well put.

cariadlet · 14/08/2021 11:07

@Soberanne

If i found out the school knew my young teenage or pre teen was binding and never informed me i would be livid.

So would I but I suppose they would fall back on Gillick competency to justify it.

Original poster
Namechangednotanewuser · 14/08/2021 11:08

The mind boggles that any parent supports political indoctrination of their children and actions in schools which is harming them psychologically physically in an irreversible fashion.
I can only assume that those that support them fall into two categories. They are either sadly misled into believing that this is progressive and enlightened and feel warm and fuzzy about being tolerant (to a self inflicted problem). Or they simply don’t know what is going and how the system is deliberately harming children.

OP posts:
Whatwouldscullydo · 14/08/2021 11:08

If i found out the school knew my young teenage or pre teen was binding and never informed me i would be livid

If you look at the allsorts guidence , something aimed at schools, found on the website of our well known organisations, you will see that in the case of SN children they are advised to help access clothes etc to enable them to present their identity. Whether or not that would include binders I dont know.

But said websites also allow for children to have private chats with unknown adults online and discuss their bodies.

Waitwhat23 · 14/08/2021 11:10

@Soberanne I don't know if you're aware of www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk (which actually started here on Mumsnet) which campaigns for toys not to be divided into 'girl's toys' and 'boy's toys'.

Marguerite2000 · 14/08/2021 11:12

@MrsSkylerWhite

Ps: what’s gay lib go to do with transgender people? They’re not gay?
Some of them are. In any case, they're grouped together nowadays, hence the LGBT 'community' I was just querying why someone who grew up in the '70s wasn't aware of 'diversity'. It was part of these entertainer's presentation and work.
HipTightOnions · 14/08/2021 11:23

Can any of the many posters who have used the term gender in the sense of “having a gender” or “changing your gender” explain what they believe gender is?

And in terms that a 4-year-old would understand?

WarriorN · 14/08/2021 11:26

@LemonSwan

Drawing?!

How is that a girls activity.

Michelangelo would be turning in his grave

There's already been a pattern noted among teachers of a level and gcse art that far, far more girls now take art than boys.

So much so there's a been a course teachers can do for about 10 years now around tackling the issue in art education. (I've done it and ironically it also includes making art more stereotypically appealing to boys, by tapping into boy stereotypes.)

Certainly also many children's craft kits are aimed girls. My boys have never received and arty crafty present from peers at any birthday party, whereas my friend commented that her daughter was gifted tonnes of them.

TheLovelinessOfDemons · 14/08/2021 11:33

@TheGenealogist

In a P1 class though when this arises, there are two ways of the teacher dealing with this :

"Miss, Gerald's dressing up as a princess but that's for girls!"

either

"Everyone likes different things and Gerald can dress up as Elsa if he wants to. Just as you can play football"

or

"Gerald's dressing up as a princess because he must want to be a girl, so we'll call him Marjorie and refer to him as she".

One approach is what good nursery and Infant teachers have been doing for YEARS. No "girls toys" and "boys toys" and mixed activity groups. The other approach is ridiculous.

This is exactly right. My genderfluid child also agrees, he would not have benefited from this, and didn't even know what gender was when he was 4.
Feelingoktoday · 14/08/2021 11:37

It’s frightening. Years ago I admired nicola sturgeon. I think she has lost the plot. It’s embarrassing what she is doing to Scotland.

WarriorN · 14/08/2021 11:38

My 3 rd old sternly told me only girls can listen to girl music (singers) and boys to boy music.

There was no reasoning; as he can't reason.)

Then was merrily nodding his head to Mariah Carey later on.

Soberanne · 14/08/2021 11:41

@HipTightOnions i think the word gender has many definitions now but to Me personally and i know its debatable but

Gender Is terms used to define people by the sex they are born . It is a social construction based on how as i society we believe either sex should behave. Gender remains the same but how we view gender changes as society changes.

Maybe others could share their definitions so that we can all better understand.

KittenKong · 14/08/2021 11:43

Scottish parent - for the love of the wee man. What nonsense is this? Gender isn’t sex - and how is a teacher qualified to play psychologist to a small child who decides that they are actually a lizard called godzilla. I was always a boy in role play at school because that’s how we played at home.

And as for ‘keeping secrets’ 🚩

Soberanne · 14/08/2021 11:46

4 year old do not understand gender we put our gender beliefs on them at that age.

HipTightOnions · 14/08/2021 11:50

It is a social construction based on how as i society we believe either sex should behave.

I tend to agree Soberanne but this is not something a person “has”. I also don’t think any 4-year-old I’ve encountered would understand.

Soberanne · 14/08/2021 11:51

@Feelingoktoday i agree. I have no idea what nicola sturgeon is thunking. I used to admire her and support her but not anymore, she has let the power go to her head and thinks snp in scotland is unbeatable. I think at the next election she may get a very big suprise. She cannottake the rights away from parents and hand those rights over to the schools especially when many working within schools are not trained in dealing with such things. When the government startS encouraging mask wearing children and school staff to keep secrets, change identify and Potentially lie To the parents, its a step too far.

Soberanne · 14/08/2021 11:59

The saddest thing for me is that for many years we tried to step away from gender stereotyping. This was because gender was used to keep certain sexes in their place and give the other sex the higher value. It still is used in this way but we fought hard to change. Now i feel we are going backwards by highlighting to young children that if they don't behave in a particular way that society says they should, based on the se they were born then there must be something wrong with them that they need to change both physically and mentally.

What a sad sad world to grow up in. Conform ir we as a society will change you so you do conform. How is that accepting.

TheLovelinessOfDemons · 14/08/2021 12:05

This is quite often as a result of parental abuse. I know a 21 year old trans man whose parents sent him a video of them burning a trans flag and saying "happy pride month, freak." He sees me as more of a parent than his biological parents.

Nsmum14 · 14/08/2021 12:09

It is sinister. A very bad side effect of this could be breaking the trust between parents and children at a very young age. All it takes is the wrong kind of teacher, with questionable intentions, for this to go seriously wrong.
Apart from the fact it is madness. At age 4 my son wanted to be a cat. At 5 he wanted to be spiderman. Before 6 / 7, kids live in cloud cuckoo land.

TheLovelinessOfDemons · 14/08/2021 12:11

But this isn't all trans people. My trans son and my genderfluid child were brought up with "You can wear what you want, play with what you want", but they still turned out the way they did, with no input from anyone.

merrymouse · 14/08/2021 12:12

@TheLovelinessOfDemons

This is quite often as a result of parental abuse. I know a 21 year old trans man whose parents sent him a video of them burning a trans flag and saying "happy pride month, freak." He sees me as more of a parent than his biological parents.
A 21 year old is legally an adult. Regardless of your relationship, you do not have parental responsibility.

If a child is being abused that is a matter for social services and there are procedures that must be followed.

Your post gives the impression that you haven’t thought about this issue in much depth.

Jellycatspyjamas · 14/08/2021 12:13

Some parents are abusive, but this guidance assumes parents aren’t able to respond in a caring, measured way and also assumes that the only right way to support children exploring their gender identity is affirmation and social transitioning. The parent who supports their child while taking a watchful waiting stance (which is shown to be appropriate for children) are labelled as transphobic and abusive, and simply in need of education.

It’s gaslighting in the extreme and sets child against parent and parent against school. How can that possibly be a good place to work from.

Kittii · 14/08/2021 12:14

What does genderfluid mean?

GreenEggsAndBacon · 14/08/2021 12:21

Drawing, how is this a girls activity?

I have no idea. All “teaching” was done unannounced, by external speakers and we were told nothing. DS came home extremely confused and luckily we speak about everything.

I think it is pushing gender stereotypes- or sex stereotypes or whatever people call it. I found it horrific that in order to be a “proper boy”, DS felt like art was something that should be avoided.

What if he hadn’t had his football (big passion) and decided that maybe he had to be a girl? Teaching this to children is wrong.

I have no idea what actually was said in the lesson. I just know that my son came out and thought that what you played with decided if you were a boy or a girl (sexist). And that you could tell gay people from how they acted (homophobic).

I think this can cause so much damage. Why can’t they celebrate the differences between children, celebrate individuality and come down hard on any unkindness and bullying?