How do Scottish parents feel about what 4 year olds are being taught

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Name changed for this.

So the Scottish govt decided that 4 year olds should be taught about gender dysphoria. Does a 4 year old really need to think about this or be taught about it. Is there anyone you know, looking back wishes that they had been taught this at 4? Who really thinks this is a good idea. Has every other generation been disadvantaged by not having this relentlessly pushed upon them as children. Just cannot get my head around it, and cannot imagine any Scottish parents being ok with this. But they clearly are or otherwise it wouldn’t be happening.

Teachers who disagree with any parts of this will not be able to challenge it.

[quote Soberanne]**@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld* i think your comment to @MrsSkylerWhite* is a bit unfair. She just saying that she trying to get her around something she doesnt fully understnd, we arent we all which is why we have these discussions. Secondly no idea what your comment about her grandchild means.[/quote]
Agree!

@mogsrus not sure how long you have been on the planet but i have been here a while too and there has always been trans people. This is in no way a made up concept.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

My comment wasn’t ageist, incidentally. It was MrsSkylerWhite-ist.

@MrsSkylerWhite

I feel confused by the whole thing too because I’m nearly 60 and just trying to get my head round it all and understand. My 1 year old grandchild will grow up not batting an eyelid at diversity, which is the way it ought to be.

Did you miss the whole glam rock thing in the '70s, the 'gay lib' movement, seeing people like Amanda Lear on TV, Boy George, Tom Robinson, etc etc ?

Oops that message was supposed to be posted

No they don’t!

4 year olds need to be taught they can be anything they want to be. That’s it.

My youngest son went through a phase about 3-5 where he insisted he was wearing dresses hair in pigtails everything. We just treated it as dressing up. He’s now 11 and laughs about it. Imagine if he’d been taken down the treatment and therapy route?!

Surely at 4, experimenting is normal and should be treated as normal? Just let them be children and explore deeper meanings when they’re much much older.

Re : binders. From the document- 'A transgender boy or non-binary young person who has developed unwanted breasts might bind their chest to flatten it, so they might need to wear a loose-fitting shirt or sweatshirt. Binders can lead to shortness of breath, can be painful during physical exertion and there are health risks associated with wearing binders that are too tight.

Binders can, however, have a positive impact on a young person's mental health so staff should allow a young person to decide for themselves about whether or not to wear a binder, to help them join in. Some transgender young people may be willing to wear a looser binder than usual during PE.'

Interestingly, the health risks of binders are hidden away in the footnotes....

@Whatwouldscullydo i absolutely agree. I can only think back to my own teen years and the effect it would have had on me having to share with males, was bad enough sharing with females, but i know that many of the male would have felt the same had they had to share with a female.

But going back to young kids ie primary they should just be allowed to get on with it. Exploring and playing. If a boy dresses up as a Disney princess it doesn't mean he wants to be a girl, hes just playing, role play.

Why cant we invest more money and spend more time teaching our children they can be whatever they want to be regardless of their physical bodies rather than investing so much Time in trying to define wether a 4 year is gender typically a male or female.

Did you miss the whole glam rock thing in the '70s, the 'gay lib' movement, seeing people like Amanda Lear on TV, Boy George, Tom Robinson, etc etc ?“

No but as a youngster I suppose the nuances passed me by then, they were just exotic pop stars.
I don’t know who Amanda Lear is.

Not quite sure why I’m being jumped on for saying I don’t really understand transgender/non binary etc. issues. it’s just not been in my experience.
I accept people for who they are, always have 🤷‍♀️

My 4-year-old quite happily identified as either a princess, Bob the Builder, or a dalmatian, and it changed on an almost hourly basis. Kids that age are way too small to have any idea about the adult concept of gender.

The whole idea of schools pandering to this nonsense is absolute bollocks.

Ps: what’s gay lib go to do with transgender people? They’re not gay?

Binders can, however, have a positive impact on a young person's mental health so staff should allow a young person to decide for themselves about whether or not to wear a binder, to help them join in. Some transgender young people may be willing to wear a looser binder than usual during PE

Im never convinced of these positive mental health benefits.

When the advice is to avoid staying outside in the gear too long. Reduce exercise etc

When exercise and fresh air are known to improve mental health , how can doing the complete opposite and sitting inside alone ir with a designated " baby sitter" while your friends are all outside playing etc improve anything. surely that's creating the issues the binders are meant to be solving ?

@MrsSkylerWhite

Did you miss the whole glam rock thing in the '70s, the 'gay lib' movement, seeing people like Amanda Lear on TV, Boy George, Tom Robinson, etc etc ?“

No but as a youngster I suppose the nuances passed me by then, they were just exotic pop stars.
I don’t know who Amanda Lear is.

Not quite sure why I’m being jumped on for saying I don’t really understand transgender/non binary etc. issues. it’s just not been in my experience.
I accept people for who they are, always have 🤷‍♀️

I don't know either MrsWhite..

these were Entertainers to us teens.. their personal lives were exactly that ... the only place I got my news was in Smash Hits.. 🤣

@Mistressiggi

Teachers who disagree with any parts of this will not be able to challenge it.

I bloody will. Tooth and nail.

@MrsSkylerWhite this link is very useful for people who are new to the discussion - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

I also don't think there is anything wrong with saying we dont understand something, thats how we learn.

MrsSkylerWhite
It read as faux naivety to me but I apologise if I was harsh
Children should be taught that some people/ideologies do not have their best interests at heart.
Acceptance is all good but we need them to grow up with critical thinking.

What we need is good educated school staff who can identify gender dysphoria and put the support in place.

Gender dysphoria is a complex condition which should be left in the hands of psychological and medical staff, teachers should support their pupils to access those supports and assessments. Teachers don’t have the knowledge or skills to assess and in all honestly I’d rather they taught my kids and let the plethora of other professionals look after medical and/or psychological issues.

No, not at all. Just total lack of personal experience or knowledge.
Thank you.

@Whatwouldscullydo this is the study which I have seen TRA organisations use in support of binding - .www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13691058.2016.1191675. This is just the abstract but analysis I have seen has said that the mental health improvements come from lessening body dismorphia. However, the study showed that 97% of those who were interviewed had adverse health issues arising from the use of binders. The general conclusion from TRA organisations is that the use of binders should not be completely condemned because of the advantage to mental health.

97% though...

This document isn't about teaching children about transgender people.

It's telling schools to unquestioningly affirm any child who expresses that they might be trans.

It's telling schools to socially transition these children, preferably without telling the parents.

It's telling schools that breastbinding can be beneficial for mental health whilst skating over the almost inevitable negative physical effects.

It's telling schools that children should choose which sex they want to do PE with (in secondary school, where this could be very unsafe).

It's emphasising to schools that from the age of 12 children are considered mature enough to consent to medical treatment.

It's telling schools that if anyone disagrees with any of this they are ignorant and should be educated.

@Jellycatspyjamas sorry thats exactly what i meant. The staff should be trained to identify when support is needed and should know how to support the child and their family to access that Correct professional support.

In my own experience teachers are running the risk of missing children who genuinely need support due to the trend theory and the increase in children identifying as trans.

Sorry i should have worded it better.

Drawing?!

How is that a girls activity.

Michelangelo would be turning in his grave

I think the Scottish government really need to rethink this one. You cannot take away the rights of parents and hand those rights over to the schools. I think parents need to start taking a stand and i for one will remove my child from the school system if Need be. Under no circumstances should a child under 12 be allowed to make such serious decisions with parental input.