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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to count DDs savings in the emergency savings fund

256 replies

Gettingmoretoast · 12/08/2021 13:37

We have an account for DD where money from her grandparents has gone into. As she is only 1, although it's in her name, we have full access to it. It's a separate account though with entirely her money and we don't touch it. I'm celebrating 'loosely' as after years of being in debt, we're not only debt free (apart from mortgage), but actually have some savings. I returned to work after mat leave 'full time' in February but used annual leave to complete a phased return until a few weeks ago and I was able to save on the nursery days we didn't need but obviously now we will be paying full time childcare and the bill will increase so I can still save, but a much lesser amount each month.
I'm very open with my sister and we've been supporting each other through our debt - savings journeys so I excitedly told her that after my pay day this month I will have officially reached my emergency savings goal so I can then focus what little savings I can now make for gradual upgrades to the house that I've been desperate to do but have ignored to focus on savings. I told her what the emergency savings was and she said she didn't think that was quite enough and I explained that if we had to, as a very last resort, we would have access to DDs savings too. She then told me that it was wrong to count her money towards my emergency savings goal because it was essentially stealing from her which I really don't agree with.
To be clear, we have sinking funds for birthdays, Christmas, annual expenses such as insurance, MOT, expected car repairs etc. So our savings are for genuine emergencies only and we would need to exhaust our own savings (which are literally 3 times larger than DDs) before we'd touch hers so we are talking some really significant emergency having happened here before we dip into them. Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill; we'll be able to save a lot more once we no longer have that to pay for and it is our intention to top both our emergency savings up as well as DDs savings up when we no longer have that to pay anyway so if we absolutely had to borrow the money from her, I'm certain we could repay it long before she turns 18 and will be getting it anyway. Is it really so wrong to say that in a genuine emergency I might borrow some of my daughter's money?

OP posts:
Ruddyknackered · 12/08/2021 14:52

If the money was given by someone else (grandparents) and it is your daughters money, just held in an account you control, then taking it is theft.

Are their scenarios when you should steal from your daughter? Possibly, but they'd be ruddy limited and after all other ways had been tried.

Cheeseplantboots · 12/08/2021 14:54

Yanbu. If it was a dire emergency, of course you could use it🙄

Namechange1million · 12/08/2021 14:55

I would never count it as money I could use. If you think it's ok to use it then you will always use it. You might dip into it now and pay it back, which will let you think it's ok to do it again when you need the money at another point. The what's to say you will always be able to pay it back. I wouldn't include it as my savings. It doesn't count. Best you forget about it. If you don't count it, you never have to repay it.

PlanDeRaccordement · 12/08/2021 14:55

YANBU, but neither is your sister.

You can of course use your DDs savings if your emergency funds are exhausted during a family crisis. I agree with you that if necessary, you could dip into them and make a plan to pay it back.

But I also agree with your sister that you should not count your DDs savings as part of your emergency savings or towards the £ goal amount you have for emergency savings. So really your sister is correct in that you don’t have enough £ for emergency savings yet.

Keep in mind the recommended amount of emergency savings is 6 months of all living expenses for entire family- mortgage/rent, bills, food, etc etc.

The step after emergency savings should be top up your pensions, not house upgrades in my opinion.

Cheeseplantboots · 12/08/2021 14:56

Also if you were on UC that money in your daughters account is regarded as yours so some people may need to dip into it.

PeterCorbeau · 12/08/2021 14:56

Also if it was that much of an emergency I'd ask my parents if they could lend me it or if they would be happy with be using the money in DD's account first.

I think it's too easy to take money from accounts and say you'll pay it back but never actually get round to doing it.

illuyankas · 12/08/2021 14:56

If the financial situation can be dire, then it's more important that she has access to the money when she was older, the purpose of the child's savings account?
I'm not saying you shouldn't never touch that money when you are actually in seriously dire situation, but I think it's totally wrong to even consider that money in hypothetical case of if something happened scenario.

cloudyrain · 12/08/2021 14:56

I obviously come from a different place to most mumsnet posters. As babies I set up savings accounts for both my DC and then added money when they received random birthday money etc from relatives who couldn't be bothered or have the time to buy presents. They had everything they needed supplied by me and they didn't need money to spend and even as they got older and knew about the account they continued to use it in the same way. At this time both DH & I were working but we had a relatively large mortgage etc. and only a small savings pot If we had needed to dip into those funds I would have done without hesitation, same as I would raid their piggy banks from time to time for cash.
I don't count my savings as such but the passbooks were with mine and DH's so in my mind it was the family savings

I always replaced the piggy bank money when I had been to the bank, and frequently added small sums to top up their savings accounts which they knew and then they got access to the funds (approx £1000) as teenagers. By then our financial position was much improved and we had savings, but I know that if we had really needed the money they would have not hesitated to lend it to us.

fairynick · 12/08/2021 14:56

I wouldn’t count it as going towards emergency savings, say for example I wanted three months wages saved up for a rainy day. I had two months myself and DC had one month. I wouldn’t class that as the goal accomplish.

That being said, if I DID have three months and DC still one month, and a huge emergency arised where I needed four months wages - without a doubt I’d take DC money.

Youseethethingis · 12/08/2021 14:58

A few £K in a savings account is fuck all use to a small child if they don't have food in their bellies or a roof over their head.
So yes, I'd use any and all funds available, including his own account, if that was the only way to meet my son's basic needs.
It really would have to be the absolute end of the line to force me there, but I wouldn't not feed my child on principle.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 12/08/2021 14:58

I agree with your sister, it’s not your money and shouldn’t be touched. I don’t view our children’s savings as anything but theirs and we have been the only ones to contribute to their accounts.
We don’t touch their birthday or Christmas money either, it’s theirs to spend as they please. I don’t gift money anymore to children after seeing too many posts where parents use it and it never makes it to the child.

GrandmaSteglitszch · 12/08/2021 14:59

I think you could use it if you were in absolute desperation BUT you should not count it now as being part of your emergency savings goal.

Lockheart · 12/08/2021 14:59

@Ruddyknackered

If the money was given by someone else (grandparents) and it is your daughters money, just held in an account you control, then taking it is theft.

Are their scenarios when you should steal from your daughter? Possibly, but they'd be ruddy limited and after all other ways had been tried.

Theft requires the intention to permanently deprive the victim of it.

If OP intends to pay it back, that's not an intention to permanently deprive and is therefore not theft.

ChunkySloth · 12/08/2021 15:01

@Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?
Yes it does. Carry on op. I remember my mum 'borrowed' money from my bday/xmas savings account when I was a kid. Roughly £200. She said she'd pay it back but never did. I was a bit put out for a while, until I moved out and realised what budgeting and real life was, she'd payed me back 1000 times over in other ways.

She raised several kids on her own. I was a dick to go on about her spending my money to be honest.

She used it to put towards a sofa bed for her to sleep on to make more room in the bedrooms for us.

And now she has arthritis in her spine.

You sound much better off than what we were, but I'm sure if it was for a necessity, your dd wouldn't mind.

FloconDeNeige · 12/08/2021 15:02

I agree with others, if it’s a choice between using it and being homeless, then use it. Otherwise it’s out of bounds.

longestlurkerever · 12/08/2021 15:03

From a legal perspective it is certainly not stealing. As people have said, in a UC assessment it would count as yours. So people can be dramatic about that all they like but without any real accuracy - if grandparents didn't want you to be ultimate decision maker over that pot they would hang on to it themselves until your dd is of age. Really though, I would just not discuss financial matters with your sister and randoms on mumsnet as you only come away feeling shit and irresponsible. I do not have 6 months' income worth of instant access savings sitting in a bank account earning nothing and yet I don't feel guilty about paying for home improvements on my main asset, the house.

igelkott2021 · 12/08/2021 15:03

@CakeandGo

She then told me that it was wrong to count her money towards my emergency savings goal because it was essentially stealing from her This is correct. Your sister is right. It’s not your money, you say yourself it’s money that’s been gifted to her.
I agree. It's not your money. If you genuinely had an emergency in the future you could get a loan instead. For example, if you needed money for a hip replacement because the NHS wouldn't do it.

And really the money should be in your child's name rather than yours.

caughtinanet · 12/08/2021 15:05

A savings goal isn't a "thing" as such, what has any of this got to do with your sister?

Don't real life people save what they can with a view to having enough to cover say a new boiler or car repair but with a pragmatic approach that some months will be better than others and there might be other times you might need to dip into them.

You're all getting het up about a purely hypothetical possible future situation

Today is a day of threads made for the tabloids, this is the 2nd one I've thought this about in quick sucession

Wolframhart · 12/08/2021 15:05

@Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?
If you are in a position where the bank will loan you money for a new roof, the situation is not dire enough to touch the kid’s savings.
Thefaceofboe · 12/08/2021 15:11

As long as it’s paid back, what harm is it doing? People are so precious on here saying it’s stealing etc Confused of course if you had a genuine emergency, it would make much more sense to use that money than get into debt or take out a loan.

neveradullmoment99 · 12/08/2021 15:12

@Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?
For an emergency, its a yes from me. At the end of the day, if the emergency was at the detriment of your family, absolutely.
neveradullmoment99 · 12/08/2021 15:12

@Thefaceofboe

As long as it’s paid back, what harm is it doing? People are so precious on here saying it’s stealing etc Confused of course if you had a genuine emergency, it would make much more sense to use that money than get into debt or take out a loan.
I absolutely agree with this. People are so precious saying it's stealing. I totally agree with this comment.
Original poster
Gettingmoretoast · 12/08/2021 15:13

@PlanDeRaccordement
That is very much how I feel. I've worded my OP badly because I was trying to summarise the title but obviously I should have phrased it better. I am not counting DDs money in my pot. I do have 6 months that would cover all bills etc. But we would need to cut back seriously on food bill / fuel bill / childcare bill. I have 4 months that would cover all these things as we have enough for 4 months income minus only what we save. We could stretch it out longer if we needed to, if the problem actually was our income suddenly dropping. This is why I am happy with my savings as they are. My ultimate goal is to get them to a full year's worth but that is not a priority right now and frankly, by the time I could even get close to that it would be less because we wouldn't have the childcare bill anymore anyway.
I appreciate your opinion on pensions but DH and I already have good pensions (both NHS) and I would genuinely prefer to enjoy my home more now than worry about my pension more at this stage of my life. We live in an ex local authority house and there are a lot of things I am desperate to get started on. We can o my do them slowly now anyway but I am happy to do what I can little and often. The emergency fund is not going to be touched for any of this and of course DDs wouldn't. Plenty of people comparing me to others who have posted about using DCs money for home improvements or holidays but that is absolutely not what I am saying here. It is purely my belief that in an emergency, it would be fine to borrow the money for DD if there was no alternative.

OP posts:
HoppingPavlova · 12/08/2021 15:16

Should your concerns persist send me a personalised message and I would be willing to offer you the name of our Local Authority where you would be welcome to pass your concerns directly to Child Protection Services. Kindest regards.

And nomination for dick post of the year goes to ….

Loki01 · 12/08/2021 15:17

YANBU. You are bearing the costs of bringing her up and paying for everything. If you need the money in an emergency, it is an emergency that includes your DD.
My DS doesn't have any savings. I never got a penny for him from anyone, my parents never helped me with any money towards the wedding, house etc.
I would love to save for him but can't as we bought a house and are making improvements.
He is a capable person and will make his own money.

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