Aibu to count DDs savings in the emergency savings fund

[Gettingmoretoast]

We have an account for DD where money from her grandparents has gone into. As she is only 1, although it's in her name, we have full access to it. It's a separate account though with entirely her money and we don't touch it. I'm celebrating 'loosely' as after years of being in debt, we're not only debt free (apart from mortgage), but actually have some savings. I returned to work after mat leave 'full time' in February but used annual leave to complete a phased return until a few weeks ago and I was able to save on the nursery days we didn't need but obviously now we will be paying full time childcare and the bill will increase so I can still save, but a much lesser amount each month.
I'm very open with my sister and we've been supporting each other through our debt - savings journeys so I excitedly told her that after my pay day this month I will have officially reached my emergency savings goal so I can then focus what little savings I can now make for gradual upgrades to the house that I've been desperate to do but have ignored to focus on savings. I told her what the emergency savings was and she said she didn't think that was quite enough and I explained that if we had to, as a very last resort, we would have access to DDs savings too. She then told me that it was wrong to count her money towards my emergency savings goal because it was essentially stealing from her which I really don't agree with.
To be clear, we have sinking funds for birthdays, Christmas, annual expenses such as insurance, MOT, expected car repairs etc. So our savings are for genuine emergencies only and we would need to exhaust our own savings (which are literally 3 times larger than DDs) before we'd touch hers so we are talking some really significant emergency having happened here before we dip into them. Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill; we'll be able to save a lot more once we no longer have that to pay for and it is our intention to top both our emergency savings up as well as DDs savings up when we no longer have that to pay anyway so if we absolutely had to borrow the money from her, I'm certain we could repay it long before she turns 18 and will be getting it anyway. Is it really so wrong to say that in a genuine emergency I might borrow some of my daughter's money?

That is your child's money and not yours to use. So I agree with your sister.

No, I wouldn't include it in emergency funds.

I'm not saying that if, in your example, your roof caves in and you desperately need that extra money to cover the costs, then you shouldn't use it. But I don't think you should count it as part of your emergency funds, iyswim?

@Samafe

Not your money. I guess if the Alternative was living on the street I would then approach the GP and ask for permission to touch the money, But honestly the fact that you are already counting them and considering them as your emergency saving is not a great start, you will be much more prone to use them....

Yes, this

I agree with your sister. Your daughter's money are not your's to spend, even in emergencies. Her grandparents gave the money to her, not to you. Taking any of it would indeed be stealing. Maybe if you pay her the money back it'd be a bit less wrong, but I essentially agree with your sister that it's not right to treat your daughter's money as if they are your's.

spongedod

Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?

I would claim in my insurance 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree with @spongedod

Besides, your roof isn't caving in, it isn't your money and yes, you would get loan from the bank before dipping into your child's funds.

It's not your money to spend.

YANBU - one of the reasons I chose to put the DC's savings into one of those accounts where I'm the named account holder is that I could access them in an absolute emergency if we, as a family, really needed them.

Just to be clear, I'm not planning on touching the money and I never have touched the money. My savings goal is what I have saved. It was my sister saying she didn't personally think my savings was enough to stop saving into the emergency fund but I said that I am happy that it's enough at this stage of my life and am ready to start saving small amounts to home improvements instead. I said as an absolute dire emergency, there is DDs money there too if there was no alternative after such an emergency that it used up all of our savings. But then you just get into the argument of how much savings is ever really enough and when you go down that route, no amount is ever enough and we would never be able to do anything to the house. With respect, the argument for what if my DD became sick and I needed money for treatment there came up ... You are literally talking hundreds of thousands of pounds in that scenario and my savings and DDs savings is not going to look like that at any point in this life time so that's a fairly pointless scenario to work towards at any point. And if we really want to debate that; why would it be my Dads responsibility to pay for her own treatment under that scenario? I would still consider that to be my responsibility as her parent. So if you're saying it's okay to borrow the money under that circumstance, you are actually agreeing with me in that there are some scenarios where you could argue it is okay to borrow a child's savings if you absolutely had to.

@Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?

You said in your op if we absolutely had to borrow the money from her, I'm certain we could repay it long before she turns 18

That's not a 100% guarantee that you're going to be paying it back, never mind with interest

Depends. If its only birthday/Xmas money from others then absolutely it is hers and you shouldn't use it.

However I know some people save child benefit for their kids but use it to fund some bigger stuff for them. Eg primary school long trips or activities. I've also known people use the 'child benefit' fund for a new car when the old one died. To me that seems OK.

I have friends whose father borrowed from their Trust Fund & never repaid it. It caused huge upset when they found out. He had intended to repay it, of course.

My DDs responsibility that should say, not Dad's

@Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?

I had exactly this happen when DD was younger, the boiler burst flooding the house. And i had no insurance.

I was repaying that loan for the best part of ten years in one way or another. It never even occurred to me to use DDs money.

@Gettingmoretoast

Just to be clear, I'm not planning on touching the money and I never have touched the money. My savings goal is what I have saved. It was my sister saying she didn't personally think my savings was enough to stop saving into the emergency fund but I said that I am happy that it's enough at this stage of my life and am ready to start saving small amounts to home improvements instead. I said as an absolute dire emergency, there is DDs money there too if there was no alternative after such an emergency that it used up all of our savings. But then you just get into the argument of how much savings is ever really enough and when you go down that route, no amount is ever enough and we would never be able to do anything to the house. With respect, the argument for what if my DD became sick and I needed money for treatment there came up ... You are literally talking hundreds of thousands of pounds in that scenario and my savings and DDs savings is not going to look like that at any point in this life time so that's a fairly pointless scenario to work towards at any point. And if we really want to debate that; why would it be my Dads responsibility to pay for her own treatment under that scenario? I would still consider that to be my responsibility as her parent. So if you're saying it's okay to borrow the money under that circumstance, you are actually agreeing with me in that there are some scenarios where you could argue it is okay to borrow a child's savings if you absolutely had to.

But you haven't saved that money for yourself...so it's not your savings.

With respect, the argument for what if my DD became sick and I needed money for treatment there came up ... You are literally talking hundreds of thousands of pounds in that scenario and my savings and DDs savings is not going to look like that at any point in this life time so that's a fairly pointless scenario to work towards at any point.

No. Medical treatment isn't always hundreds of thousands of pounds. You can't deny that there may, at some point in any child's life, be something medically that's their own money could help with.

You will justify your thoughts though. So crack on.

First of all, congratulations for getting yourself out of debt. That's a big achievement.
I don't understand any of your savings information.
You have emergency savings, general savings, and sinking funds. I don't know what your emergency savings are for if your sister says they're not enough, but considering that you are still accruing general savings, why do you not just move those across into the emergency fund instead of considering spending your child's money. If you've lost your jobs, no food and about to lose the house, I guess the child is at risk so spending the money is understandable. If you want a new lampshade to do up the house, then no. That's just wrong.
But you've only just had your daughter so surely you wouldn't have had her if you didn't have enough money to feed, clothe and house her?

Nope not your money in ANY circumstances

We have used our children's savings when we absolutely needed them. And paid them back - we are probably going to have to again over the next few months due to the ridiculous amount of time DLA are taking to renew claim - so in 2 weeks we have nearly £1000 per month drop in income until our renewal is processed and then we get a massive back payment so can repay the amount we have borrowed.

Without it the children would have to give up a lot of their activities and classes.

Yanbu.
For absolute dire emergencies then you do what you have to do.

Well, we're sleeping on the streets because X happened and we thought it morally wrong to touch the thousands in our daughters account so we've just covered her up as best we can in this here cardboard box.

We can't afford food but I just can't bring myself to buy food from her money so I'll just not feed her instead.

In absolute worst case scenarios your daughter benefits more from her money being borrowed than she does from it staying in the bank and living through the dire scenario with you. I can't believe anyone would think otherwise.

It never occurred to me that I might access DD’s savings under any circumstances. Most of the money there even comes from us because she tends to save her allowance. I mean I suppose if it was the difference between her having food or not, then yes we would access her money, but I am imagining an extreme scenario where I have exhausted every other option and our life is basically imploding. I wouldn’t consider it part of my emergency fund.

YANBU.

In the end if there is an emergency and you need the money I think it's ok.

I've been saving for my kids since they born.
Then we need to move house. Unfortunately we dont have enough of a deposit.
I've taken some from each of their savings. To make the deposit up. My thinking is by moving house we will enjoy the new house- kids included and obviously they will benefit from any will we leave.

I'm hoping to put the money back when we are more financially secure. And in the future help with any educational costs- house deposit. So using some now when we need it- this will bring us forwards about 2 years for a house move- they can enjoy their childhood in a nicer house and environment.

I think its definitely worth it.

@spongedod why shouldn't I justify my thoughts? That's what a debate and discussion is for isn't it? I haven't actually done anything wrong here at all; I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario and am interested in others opinions. They don't have to be the same as mine, that's the point of a discussion and what makes it interesting. Would you prefer me to just cry and say you're all right, I'm a terrible parent for even thinking this?!? That's healthy right? Or we could just actually have a civil discussion about it???

@Marcee

YANBU.

In the end if there is an emergency and you need the money I think it's ok.

I've been saving for my kids since they born.
Then we need to move house. Unfortunately we dont have enough of a deposit.
I've taken some from each of their savings. To make the deposit up. My thinking is by moving house we will enjoy the new house- kids included and obviously they will benefit from any will we leave.

I'm hoping to put the money back when we are more financially secure. And in the future help with any educational costs- house deposit. So using some now when we need it- this will bring us forwards about 2 years for a house move- they can enjoy their childhood in a nicer house and environment.

I think its definitely worth it.

My kids are 7 and 3. So it's not any money they've saved themselves. They aren't even aware of the savings account.

I agree with your sister - we have accounts for our DDs each have quite a lot of money in for their ages, however it is for them when they grow up and we would never spend it.

I have mixed feeling because in a dire emergency (boiler kaput or roof falls in - btw age related wear and tear would not be covered by insurance) yes it would be madness not to use some of those savings. Not ideal, and you'd have to replace them of course.

But on the other hand if the only way you will have a sufficient emergency fund is to count those savings when you have spent your own "upgrading the house" then I suggest you rein back on your upgrading plans unless they are essential. Leaky roof, yes, worth the upgrade costs to avoid the risk of a wholesale failure. Redecorating bedrooms and getting new sofas, woahhh, you need to wait a bit longer and save some more.

It is tough I know when your kids are little and nursery costs a bomb. We went without a lot of stuff when our eldest was little but he's 16 now, salaries have grown and I am constantly upgrading my house these days!