Aibu to count DDs savings in the emergency savings fund

[Gettingmoretoast]

We have an account for DD where money from her grandparents has gone into. As she is only 1, although it's in her name, we have full access to it. It's a separate account though with entirely her money and we don't touch it. I'm celebrating 'loosely' as after years of being in debt, we're not only debt free (apart from mortgage), but actually have some savings. I returned to work after mat leave 'full time' in February but used annual leave to complete a phased return until a few weeks ago and I was able to save on the nursery days we didn't need but obviously now we will be paying full time childcare and the bill will increase so I can still save, but a much lesser amount each month.
I'm very open with my sister and we've been supporting each other through our debt - savings journeys so I excitedly told her that after my pay day this month I will have officially reached my emergency savings goal so I can then focus what little savings I can now make for gradual upgrades to the house that I've been desperate to do but have ignored to focus on savings. I told her what the emergency savings was and she said she didn't think that was quite enough and I explained that if we had to, as a very last resort, we would have access to DDs savings too. She then told me that it was wrong to count her money towards my emergency savings goal because it was essentially stealing from her which I really don't agree with.
To be clear, we have sinking funds for birthdays, Christmas, annual expenses such as insurance, MOT, expected car repairs etc. So our savings are for genuine emergencies only and we would need to exhaust our own savings (which are literally 3 times larger than DDs) before we'd touch hers so we are talking some really significant emergency having happened here before we dip into them. Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill; we'll be able to save a lot more once we no longer have that to pay for and it is our intention to top both our emergency savings up as well as DDs savings up when we no longer have that to pay anyway so if we absolutely had to borrow the money from her, I'm certain we could repay it long before she turns 18 and will be getting it anyway. Is it really so wrong to say that in a genuine emergency I might borrow some of my daughter's money?

@SealHouse

YABU, it's not your money.

"Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill"

Something a bit jarring about the way you phrased that. It's not "DDs childcare bill", it's YOUR bill for childcare, a child you chose to have.

Almost as if DD owes you access to her savings because you're paying 'her childcare bill'.

It’s NOT your money. As for you making it sound like your dc is responsible for paying your childcare costs.... Your DC’s money isn’t for your use.

Gettingmoretoast

@spongedod why shouldn't I justify my thoughts? That's what a debate and discussion is for isn't it? I haven't actually done anything wrong here at all; I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario and am interested in others opinions. They don't have to be the same as mine, that's the point of a discussion and what makes it interesting. Would you prefer me to just cry and say you're all right, I'm a terrible parent for even thinking this?!? That's healthy right? Or we could just actually have a civil discussion about it???

Well I mean you ask AIBU but don't actually want to hear it.

Why do people say this and respond like this on Mumsnet sometimes??? Seriously why? Where have I said I don't want to hear it? Where have I been excessively defensive? I'm genuinely interested in others opinions and do indeed 'want to hear it' but you're too quick to get snarky and aggressive to actually just participate in a discussion? Having a different opinion to someone else does not have to become a negative exchange. I adore my sister, we discussed this and then went onto discuss something else.... I'm not here to prove her wrong or call her an idiot for her opinion, I'm genuinely interested in others and of course I respect all of your options because I respect my sister's and she agrees with those of you who say I am unreasonable to think this... That's fine. I'm genuinely interested to see what other people think. Lighten up a bit. It's not that serious love 😂

Personally I would only borrow my children's money if aliens invaded earth and I needed to pay for seats on an escape mission.

@Gettingmoretoast

Sorry, we cross posted on both my posts - I write too much and I'm slow!. Honestly, I think you've saved very well and your budgeting makes sense. No one ever has enough savings! But if you and your partner not expecting to be made redundant, then I think its unreasonable to constantly put money away and not enjoy a comfortable existence like a new suite etc. Not many people live like that. There's two of you saving so you'll always be able to put bits away here and there.
As for taking a loan out instead of using savings as a pp suggested, how does that make sense? The fact that you're capable of paying it back with interest, shows you could have paid your daughter back and given her the interest.
You sound a very responsible person, taking control of your debt and I'm sure you would do your utmost not to use your daughters money unless in dire straights.

Why do people say this and respond like this on Mumsnet sometimes??? Seriously why?

Probably because I offered a reasonable scenario as to why you shouldn't consider it as available money and you said it was a pointless scenario. Because you didn't want to hear it.

It would have to be a proper emergency..I’m thinking one child needs urgent private medical treatment and I wouldn’t hesitate to steal from the other one to pay for it. Otherwise, no.

Having said that, I’ve borrowed from my kids’ money box when I’ve needed cash, but offset with a transfer to their savings account. Saves me a trip to the bank!

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people on Mumsnet have never been really poor.

Savings are a luxury. Many, many people can't afford to save. The OP has done an amazing job, to accrue the various savings that she has. And I don't believe she has any intention of using her dc's savings, and certainly not for fripperies.

But if it came to an emergency, the short-term welfare of her dc is of far more importance than their long-term future. They, like many others, can start their adult lives without the cushion of savings, if needs be. But it will likely never come to that, as the OP has demonstrated that she is more than capable of replacing any money she might use in an urgent situation.

If your family is having an emergency then you pool all family resources as needed.

Fuck all point leaving £500 in a child's saving account whilst you're having to use food banks and skip meals, or not able to put the heating on in winter, for example.

If savings are in an account which you can access, even in a child's name, then that is considered when calculating universal credit. So government expect you to use that money if needed. So no, as long as it's truly the last resort I do not think you are being unreasonable. However, it's morally uncomfortable and if it does need to be used then a standing order should be set up asap to replace that money.

Junior ISAs are not counted for government purposes, so money that you really do not want touched should go in there. So large sums of money, inheritance etc.

@spongedod well I'm very sorry I offended you, I genuinely didn't mean to. But I do stand by that if I had to pay for DDs medical treatment, I would not consider that as something she should be expected to pay for. I'm her Mum, I would take care of it. But if that fell into the arena of my emergency fund alone wouldn't cover it then I would dip into hers as that's definitely what I would call a dire emergency and then as soon as I could, I would out it back. And you are saying that I shouldn't touch DDs money because what if she needed it for that.... So aren't we actually saying the same thing? That in an absolute emergency, it could be used if it would benefit DD?

@Mammaaof

Nope not your money in ANY circumstances

Even if said child's parents are on the streets and starving?

I'm sure it will be of great comfort to the child that she's got some money when she's older, despite having grown up in care...

If it was the money saved by you, maybe, in dire situations. But if the money was a gift from grand parents for your dc as you state in op, no way.

[quote Gettingmoretoast]@spongedod well I'm very sorry I offended you, I genuinely didn't mean to. But I do stand by that if I had to pay for DDs medical treatment, I would not consider that as something she should be expected to pay for. I'm her Mum, I would take care of it. But if that fell into the arena of my emergency fund alone wouldn't cover it then I would dip into hers as that's definitely what I would call a dire emergency and then as soon as I could, I would out it back. And you are saying that I shouldn't touch DDs money because what if she needed it for that.... So aren't we actually saying the same thing? That in an absolute emergency, it could be used if it would benefit DD?[/quote]

I'm not offended, I'm not sure why you think that.

It's quite bizarre you would pay for any medical treatment emergencies for her, as her mum, but give an example of a broken roof which you would use her money temporarily for.

I don't think it's wrong to use your child's money for something they need, I suspect the idea of counting it as your savings is what has blurred the lines here.

Maybe let's try to look at it from another perspective. I have access rights and signature rights on my Grandma back account. Would you consider me being allowed to take money without asking if I miscalculated my home improvement budget?

Careful who you mention the savings too in case they suddenly have the need to “borrow it”

When XH and I split up, I had to borrow money out of my DC savings account. It was that or lose the roof over our heads.

It took me four years to pay it back, but if I hadn't been able to repay it I wouldn't have felt guilty.

I'd look into all my options before the emergency occured, so that when it does occur, my first thought isn't to steal (and taking something that doesn't belong to you is stealing, it's not your money, it's hers).

@SealHouse
YABU, it's not your money.

"Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill"

Something a bit jarring about the way you phrased that. It's not "DDs childcare bill", it's YOUR bill for childcare, a child you chose to have.

Almost as if DD owes you access to her savings because you're paying 'her childcare bill'.

My apologies again. I'm obviously not amazing with my words today. No, I absolutely, 100% do not believe that my daughter owes me a debt for paying for childcare. I can assure that at no point between now and the end of my natural life will I present my daughter with an invoice for years of parenting service provided, including, but not limited to, childcare, food, clothing, housing, tickles, cuddles or Baby Annabelles. I hope this lessons the concern you have developed for my DD. Should your concerns persist send me a personalised message and I would be willing to offer you the name of our Local Authority where you would be welcome to pass your concerns directly to Child Protection Services. Kindest regards.

The emergency situation you're describing is someone in fairly dire financial circumstances. I wouldn't want to lend them money.

Legally you're a trustee. When you're dealing with the money you should be solely motivated by what's in your daughter's best interests, not what's best for the family. She's got a much better chance of getting her money back when she's entitled to it if it's in a savings account.

@spongedod Well I suppose I could just make sure that her bed is not directly under the broken roof. That way we could probably get away with that barely counting as an emergency.

At the risk of getting a pasting OP I am with you. In the entirely hypothetical scenario that you are in a dire financial crisis that is going to affect your child's long term prospects, you are the parent and you get to decide what's in your child's best interests. If that's borrowing from her fund, so be it.

A lot of people on here with quite fixed mindsets, who I would argue don't trust themselves or other people very much...

I think it is great you have asked the question and from this alone I would say you can trust yourself to make the right decision. For me personally YANBU to include it in your emergency planning. In fact I would argue it is the sensible thing to do, allows you to be more efficient with your other money ultimately leading to more inheritance for you child one day.

@Samafe

Maybe let's try to look at it from another perspective. I have access rights and signature rights on my Grandma back account. Would you consider me being allowed to take money without asking if I miscalculated my home improvement budget?

Say your grandma had dementia and was unable to make a decision so you had access to her money. Say she was living with you and you and she were going to be on the streets if you didn't use her money. Would you use it then?

I think it would have to be a very dire emergency indeed for us to do that, so we wouldn't count it as accessible money or think about it as part of our overall 'assets'. It's sort of ringfenced away from us and while technically we have access, I would feel awful using it.

No I think gifted money belongs to the recipient. However any money you put in that account should be usable.

Also if you ended up in a situation where it was use your child's money or get into debt, it makes sense to use the money. Occasionally there's a thread here about someone spiraling into debt and they refuse to touch the 5 grand in their child's savings account. At a certain point you have to be pragmatic.