Aibu to count DDs savings in the emergency savings fund

[Gettingmoretoast]

We have an account for DD where money from her grandparents has gone into. As she is only 1, although it's in her name, we have full access to it. It's a separate account though with entirely her money and we don't touch it. I'm celebrating 'loosely' as after years of being in debt, we're not only debt free (apart from mortgage), but actually have some savings. I returned to work after mat leave 'full time' in February but used annual leave to complete a phased return until a few weeks ago and I was able to save on the nursery days we didn't need but obviously now we will be paying full time childcare and the bill will increase so I can still save, but a much lesser amount each month.
I'm very open with my sister and we've been supporting each other through our debt - savings journeys so I excitedly told her that after my pay day this month I will have officially reached my emergency savings goal so I can then focus what little savings I can now make for gradual upgrades to the house that I've been desperate to do but have ignored to focus on savings. I told her what the emergency savings was and she said she didn't think that was quite enough and I explained that if we had to, as a very last resort, we would have access to DDs savings too. She then told me that it was wrong to count her money towards my emergency savings goal because it was essentially stealing from her which I really don't agree with.
To be clear, we have sinking funds for birthdays, Christmas, annual expenses such as insurance, MOT, expected car repairs etc. So our savings are for genuine emergencies only and we would need to exhaust our own savings (which are literally 3 times larger than DDs) before we'd touch hers so we are talking some really significant emergency having happened here before we dip into them. Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill; we'll be able to save a lot more once we no longer have that to pay for and it is our intention to top both our emergency savings up as well as DDs savings up when we no longer have that to pay anyway so if we absolutely had to borrow the money from her, I'm certain we could repay it long before she turns 18 and will be getting it anyway. Is it really so wrong to say that in a genuine emergency I might borrow some of my daughter's money?

I think some of these responses are a bit crackers.

Op has made it clear it would be an emergency only and that the money would be repaid. I think there are several unlikely scenarios in which the interests of the child would be best served by the parents dipping into such a fund rather than the family undergoing hardship and/or being crippled with massive loan repayments that would blight family life maybe for years. Even if circumstances were such that it couldn't be repaid and the child's pot was less at 18 it wouldn't necessarily be the worst outcome imo, though obviously best avoided if at all possible, but most people don't choose shit things to happen to them.

I'm speaking as someone who's never touched her dc"s savings btw, but I can imagine circumstances in which I would.

OP I would stop telling your sister the minutae of your life. You seem sensible q. in a good position with your dd's best interns at heart.

OP this is mumsnet, where unless you are putting thousands into savings for each of your children every year you are failing them.
Meanwhile, in the real world no I don't think you should count it, but if there was a really big emergency most people probably would use the money, if they new they could repay it. In all likelihood you won't though, and certainly not with interest so.....

YABU it's not your money. I think you should forget it's even there.

[quote Gettingmoretoast]@spongedod why shouldn't I justify my thoughts? That's what a debate and discussion is for isn't it? I haven't actually done anything wrong here at all; I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario and am interested in others opinions. They don't have to be the same as mine, that's the point of a discussion and what makes it interesting. Would you prefer me to just cry and say you're all right, I'm a terrible parent for even thinking this?!? That's healthy right? Or we could just actually have a civil discussion about it???[/quote]

Well I mean you ask AIBU but don't actually want to hear it.

I think the problem here is that you’ve been talking about a “savings goal” and obviously your DDs savings should not be counted towards that goal.

That should be separate from the concept that in a real emergency you would be able to access DDs savings. People who are saying you’re not allowed to use them are wrong - if you are the adult named on the account then you can withdraw money from this and it is perfectly legal. For tax purposes it would presumably have to be spent on something that directly benefitted her.

I don’t think in all honesty that there are many people who would not IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES touch their children’s savings and who would queue up for the food bank while simultaneously having multi hundreds or perhaps thousands in the bank in their children’s names. Of course in this scenario if you did borrow money from her account then any reasonable person would aim to repay it ASAP.

If there was a genuinely unavoidable emergency and OP had to borrow some of the savings, I actually would think that was fine.

I think it's the fact that OP has already earmarked that money and decided that she will use it, without there actually being such an emergency, that's a bit unsavoury. It does give the impression that she thinks of the money as hers.

I'm with your sister on this one. I've been on the bones of my arse financially and not once did I conside or even think about using DS's savings. It never entered my mind. It's his money, and if I needed to do something drastic to the house I would much rather get a loan than use his savings.

I think if you had asked the question about whether it’s ever acceptable to touch your children’s savings - without mentioning the savings goal bit - then you might have got different responses

@Martianworld Thank you! I appreciate that. It has taken a lot of hard work.
So my goal has always been to have a 3-6 month emergency fund (after the wise people at money saving expert stated this as the gold standard). So this is what I have been working towards. Yes, we have sinking funds for know / predictable expenses and general savings for things such as the lamp you mention and other such niceties for the home but we have been not adding to the general savings in order to prioritise the emergency savings so that has been my goal and I have reached 4 months fully covered but would last 6 months if we cut back on things and that's my savings, not DDs. My sister has advised that I need the full 6 months which is what if I did include DDs money, that would take us to but I honestly am not saying I'm counting it. These are genuine emergency savings and if I don't have enough for a lamp then the lamp will wait. The emergency fund is purely for the worst case, sudden, unexpected job loss, major accident, roof falls in kind of emergency. I hope that makes a bit more sense? And yes, we have a separate fund for bits for DD that are part of the sinking funds because obviously as she grows she needs more things (clothes, toddler bed etc.)

I think if it was just your own money that you were saving up for DD's future then fair enough to count it as family savings for use in an emergency - i.e. if you lost your jobs or something, you're not exactly helping DD with savings for future if you can't pay rent now.

If it's money other people have given her, like from grandparents, that's different and shouldn't be classed as family money.

It’s obviously not yours to use BUT I would not be going to a food bank whilst there is money in my Dcs bank account.

Depends where the money comes from. Money you or your partner put in a separate account which you've mentally set aside for your DD is fair game and can count for family emergency money. Its your money which you are reallocating due to need (especially if your DD doesn't know this money exists).
Money family members have given her to save is not your money and not part of the savings. That's money which has been given to your DD (even if in your names). If you need that money, I would run it by the givers first. They may say of course use it, they may want to give you money for that emergency because it may be incredibly important to them that she has the savings long term. They deserve to be consulted.
Also borrowing money out of that account, even if repaid can still have financial consequences. 18 years of interest can add up, taking money out for a bit, will reduce the time for interest to accrue and thus your dd could lose money even if you replace it.

I disagree, surely the money is family when it comes to emergencies. Most emergencies that may occur, solving them is going to benefit the child. Using the money to buy a new set of golf clubs or a night out then no, using the money to put food on the table or pay the mortgage then yes

In the same way I wouldn’t steal money from my parents, I would never touch dc money and in an emergency I’d get a loan or credit card. You can’t spend other people’s money even if you are their main carer and love them.

@Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?

Yes. I’d ask my parents for a loan, or mil, or sell something or take out a bank loan.

I would never steal borrow money from DS’s savings account, because it’s not my money.
Especially since it’s not even money you have saved for your dc, it’s money from grandparents, so it was never your money to begin with.

[quote Gettingmoretoast]**@spongedod why shouldn't I justify my thoughts? That's what a debate and discussion is for isn't it? I haven't actually done anything wrong here at all; I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario and am interested in others opinions. They don't have to be the same as mine, that's the point of a discussion and what makes it interesting. Would you prefer me to just cry and say you're all right, I'm a terrible parent for even thinking this?!? That's healthy right? Or we could just actually have a civil discussion about it???[/quote]
@Gettingmoretoast

@spongedod why shouldn't I justify my thoughts? That's what a debate and discussion is for isn't it? I haven't actually done anything wrong here at all; I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario and am interested in others opinions. They don't have to be the same as mine, that's the point of a discussion and what makes it interesting. Would you prefer me to just cry and say you're all right, I'm a terrible parent for even thinking this?!? That's healthy right? Or we could just actually have a civil discussion about it???

This reminds me of a friend who, the night before she was married, was asked by her mum if she was sure she wanted to marry her partner. My friend said, yes and if it was mistake, she'd just get divorced. Her mum was horrified that she was contemplating divorcing before she was even married. 😂 Of course my friend was just viewing options in a worse case scenario. 🤷

Your situation is similar. You've hypothesised about something you are not intending and don't believe will happen. But from another point of view, the fact you're talking about it implies you're thinking and are happy about doing it.
Starvation - yes. Lampshade - no.

YABU, it's not your money.

"Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill"

Something a bit jarring about the way you phrased that. It's not "DDs childcare bill", it's YOUR bill for childcare, a child you chose to have.

Almost as if DD owes you access to her savings because you're paying 'her childcare bill'.

You're not planning to use it though. It's only in case of extreme emergency! Of course YANBU!

I'm sure that once you're back on your feet you would replace it and your child would be none the wiser!

It's not your money.

It never even was your money, it's money from her grandparents.

What happens if you borrow it when she's 10 and by the time she's 16 or 18 or whatever, you haven't repaid it? And find you can't repay it.

This reminds me of a thread a while ago where someone had “borrowed” her son’s money to fund a house extension and was wondering how little she could get away with paying back when he was 18. She thought like you, OP. She got her arse handed to her.

I dipped into my kids savings in an emergency. I desperately needed the money. I'm still paying it back into their accounts today.

Don't see what the big deal is TBH.

Just don’t count it as emergency savings because it isn’t.

But you would use it if you absolutely and utterly had no choice - but that would only ever be on a credit arrangement. However it isn’t part of your cushion.

And that includes money grandparents had given them - though the total was only about £2k so not enough to buy a house with

@Gettingmoretoast

Really? So if the roof of your house caved in and you needed to use all of your savings to fix it but were a a bit shy, you'd rather take out a loan to cover that rather than borrow from your child's account with a view to repay plus interest somewhere in the next 16+ years before they are ever going to see that money anyway? Does that really not seem unnecessary to people?

If it's an amount you'd need 16 years to pay back then it's an amount I wouldn't want to be taking, and I certainly wouldn't be counting in with own my savings unless it's money I'd put there myself. If they'd bought her say jewellery instead would you sell her gifts if you needed the cash?

Chronic illness and disability hit me in my mid 30s out of nowhere, it's drastically reduced our income and life. Dh has had to take a big income hit and can't work the long hours he'd like when I need care and he's had cancer himself too and at one point we were both really sick. If we'd taken a significant amount of dds money off her on the basis we expected to always be earning the same or circumstances not to change and assumed we had 16 years to pay it back before she noticed we'd took it. We'd be fucked.

If you're talking about thousands off her rather than a couple of hundred then yes, I'd have got a loan because at least if shit hits the fans like it did us, insurance could help pay loans back, or lenders can reduce payments and dds money is untouched. If I'd taken it and couldn't pay it back I'd feel like shit and I think the people who had given it to her likely wouldn't if they knew I was counting it in with our savings goals. I feel like shit that my health has limited our our family life so much, I'd feel even worse at taking her money too.

There was also a thread a while back where someone was asking if it was ok to use her child's money (again, gifted from another family member) to furnish the child's bedroom. I think the general concensus there also was that it's not OK.