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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to count DDs savings in the emergency savings fund

256 replies

Gettingmoretoast · 12/08/2021 13:37

We have an account for DD where money from her grandparents has gone into. As she is only 1, although it's in her name, we have full access to it. It's a separate account though with entirely her money and we don't touch it. I'm celebrating 'loosely' as after years of being in debt, we're not only debt free (apart from mortgage), but actually have some savings. I returned to work after mat leave 'full time' in February but used annual leave to complete a phased return until a few weeks ago and I was able to save on the nursery days we didn't need but obviously now we will be paying full time childcare and the bill will increase so I can still save, but a much lesser amount each month.
I'm very open with my sister and we've been supporting each other through our debt - savings journeys so I excitedly told her that after my pay day this month I will have officially reached my emergency savings goal so I can then focus what little savings I can now make for gradual upgrades to the house that I've been desperate to do but have ignored to focus on savings. I told her what the emergency savings was and she said she didn't think that was quite enough and I explained that if we had to, as a very last resort, we would have access to DDs savings too. She then told me that it was wrong to count her money towards my emergency savings goal because it was essentially stealing from her which I really don't agree with.
To be clear, we have sinking funds for birthdays, Christmas, annual expenses such as insurance, MOT, expected car repairs etc. So our savings are for genuine emergencies only and we would need to exhaust our own savings (which are literally 3 times larger than DDs) before we'd touch hers so we are talking some really significant emergency having happened here before we dip into them. Also, we're now paying nearly £900 a month in DDs childcare bill; we'll be able to save a lot more once we no longer have that to pay for and it is our intention to top both our emergency savings up as well as DDs savings up when we no longer have that to pay anyway so if we absolutely had to borrow the money from her, I'm certain we could repay it long before she turns 18 and will be getting it anyway. Is it really so wrong to say that in a genuine emergency I might borrow some of my daughter's money?

OP posts:
DelphiniumTea · 12/08/2021 20:25

I think the fact that so many on MN were unaware that children’s savings beyond a certain point count as family savings when it comes to benefit entitlements says a lot about the financial security of many on here

That's very interesting, but I don't understand the implications. I might have missed an earlier explanation, perhaps. Is it simple to explain, or is there a link I can learn from?

spongedod · 12/08/2021 20:27

I think the fact that so many on MN were unaware that children’s savings beyond a certain point count as family savings when it comes to benefit entitlements says a lot about the financial security of many on here

I'm not financially secure. I live from week to week and it's not easy. I wouldn't have e w clue about benefits though. Why the assumption that of people are not on benefits they are financially secure? I'm hanging on by a string most weeks.

DelphiniumTea · 12/08/2021 20:36

I'm not financially secure. I live from week to week and it's not easy. I wouldn't have e w clue about benefits though. Why the assumption that of people are not on benefits they are financially secure? I'm hanging on by a string most weeks

I thought the pp was getting at a child having say 50k savings and the parent still claiming benefits. Or something like that.

TractorsAndHeadphones · 12/08/2021 21:25

@DelphiniumTea

I think the fact that so many on MN were unaware that children’s savings beyond a certain point count as family savings when it comes to benefit entitlements says a lot about the financial security of many on here

That's very interesting, but I don't understand the implications. I might have missed an earlier explanation, perhaps. Is it simple to explain, or is there a link I can learn from?

You're correct. The implication is that money in a child's savings account that the parent has access to counts as family money. And you're expected to use it ahead of taxpayer money.

Of course the poster could also have meant that not many here are on benefits but I think it's the air of privilege that accompanies being able to leave your child's money untouched. If you were ever really poor and desperate you'd know that it's all hands on deck when there's an emergency .Having savings specially for you and going into adulthood with that cushion is a luxury.

JustLyra · 12/08/2021 21:40

@DelphiniumTea

I think the fact that so many on MN were unaware that children’s savings beyond a certain point count as family savings when it comes to benefit entitlements says a lot about the financial security of many on here

That's very interesting, but I don't understand the implications. I might have missed an earlier explanation, perhaps. Is it simple to explain, or is there a link I can learn from?

It counts in the same way parents savings do.

Roughly - if you have 6k of savings benefits are reduced. If you have 16k you’re not entitled.

The first 3k of children’s savings aren’t counted, but anything else is classed as savings the parent has access to and should use before benefits.

JustLyra · 12/08/2021 21:45

My point was that there are many on here who’ve never had to understand the intricacies of the benefits system and things like children’s savings counting.

I also think people who say they’d get a loan or credit card before touching their child’s money sometimes don’t realise the privilege of that being options they have.

TractorsAndHeadphones · 12/08/2021 21:48

@JustLyra

My point was that there are many on here who’ve never had to understand the intricacies of the benefits system and things like children’s savings counting.

I also think people who say they’d get a loan or credit card before touching their child’s money sometimes don’t realise the privilege of that being options they have.

Yes, oh to have enough money that the thought of paying to borrow money is a lot better than taking money you already have (let alone the possibility of even getting approved for debt) In ordinary times credit card debt is fine but if you're already in a precarious situation you're unlikely to escape with no interest
FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 12/08/2021 21:51

@JustLyra

My point was that there are many on here who’ve never had to understand the intricacies of the benefits system and things like children’s savings counting.

I also think people who say they’d get a loan or credit card before touching their child’s money sometimes don’t realise the privilege of that being options they have.

Well said.

I spent my kids savings when leaving my marriage because I had terrible credit after exH helped plunge me into debt by earning fuck all the high made me take credit cards out I couldn't pay back

ScottishNewbie · 12/08/2021 21:52

YABU completely. It's stealing.

Draineddraineddrained · 12/08/2021 21:55

What a lot of nonsense. I mean unless we're talking thousands of pounds here, which I assume we're not given she's one, ring fencing her savings come what may is daft - she's at the point where she really doesn't have "interests" of her own, what benefits the family is what benefits her as "the family" more or less exists for the purposes of her wellbeing.

From another angle, me and my sister had namedsavings accounts, in the olden days when you got a folder and a cheque book etc, and we took it very seriously as young kids. When my mum left my dad (justifiably, he was an alcoholic and abusive husband to her) - she emptied our accounts. Now I know she probably needed it, and there were more important things afoot than the feelings of a couple of preschoolers, but we minded. She never paid it back, and we minded that as well. So once she's reached the age of reason, I think it becomes less "family money" and more a question of "borrowing" it and repaying it in extremis. But of course you SHOULS borrow it in extremis rather than taking out costly debt! People on here are bonkers sometimes, they act as if family members have nothing to do with each other!

Draineddraineddrained · 12/08/2021 22:01

Just to clarify, when I say my mum left my dad she left us with him. So the money wasn't used for "our new life" but for her new life. Which I think is the distinction.

Botanica · 12/08/2021 22:05

Your sister is 100% right. Surely you know this deep down?

Touching that money is stealing. Simple as that.

Sadiecow · 12/08/2021 22:12

@Botanica

Your sister is 100% right. Surely you know this deep down?

Touching that money is stealing. Simple as that.

It's not!
Moooncake · 12/08/2021 22:14

YANBU and calling it stealing is laughable.

If it really came down to it, it'd be stupid not to use them.

Blossomtoes · 12/08/2021 22:16

Taking something that belongs to someone else is stealing. What else would you call it?

Shellfishblastard · 12/08/2021 22:18

If it’s money given to you to specifically put in the account then YABU.

If it’s money from birthday gifts etc that you have decided to save rather than spend then YANBU.

That said - if money was so tight that I couldn’t feed my kids I wouldn’t hesitate to dip into the savings.

DelphiniumTea · 12/08/2021 22:18

I think it's the air of privilege that accompanies being able to leave your child's money untouched. If you were ever really poor and desperate you'd know that it's all hands on deck when there's an emergency .Having savings specially for you and going into adulthood with that cushion is a luxury

Yes. You said it well. "There is an air of privilege" about people who rarely have to worry about finding a couple of hundred pounds.

It's just there. They have it if needed and if not, they have relatives to borrow it from.

Don't have £200 to send your kid off to a skiing hol?

Or short of £200 to pay rent.

Or think it's a bit much to pay £200 for your kid to go on holiday with a friend's parents?

Or you'll be evicted if you don't come up with some money.

Mumsnet , I have observed, has a lot of people who have no problem at all with cash flow problems. Hence this OP bashing thread.

OP. YANBU

DelphiniumTea · 12/08/2021 22:21

The first 3k of children’s savings aren’t counted, but anything else is classed as savings the parent has access to and should use before benefits

Well am I alone in thinking that's pretty fair? It's a lot of money.

KarmaStar · 12/08/2021 22:21

You are thinking because it is your dc and you control the money you are entitled to use it.
You are morally very wrong and shame on you for thinking you can help yourself to a child's savings.The fact that you are considering it when no emergency has arisen shows your ethical standards.You are setting the bar extremely low.

EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall · 12/08/2021 22:25

If you have savings and transfer it to a child's account then it's still classed as your savings when claiming universal credit. Money in my childrens savings account given to rhem by their gp does not affect my benefits

Has no one heard of the child trust fund?

DelphiniumTea · 12/08/2021 22:28

^I spent my kids savings when leaving my marriage because I had terrible credit after exH helped plunge me into debt by earning fuck all the high made me take credit cards out I couldn't pay back*

Nobody could fault you for that. Flowers

Justrealised · 12/08/2021 22:33

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall I was just about to make the same point. We were in an accident and my don was awarded compensation as he is a child it had to go into an account we do not have access to and it cannot be removed until he turns 18 and does it himself. We opted to put it into a childs isa and transfered his ctf over to this.

The DWP will count any money you have access to including your daughters account if it isn't locked away. So if you did for example loose your job (hope that isn't the case) you would be expected to use this money before claiming any benefit or being entitled.

Mickarooni · 12/08/2021 22:43

I wouldn’t formally “count it as savings” but, of course, would consider it if the alternative was my child going hungry.

Wolframhart · 12/08/2021 22:44

In our household, only the money dd saves herself is in a regular savings account. It’s not much different than a piggy bank.

The savings contributions the grandparents have made for her future and the monthly payments we make to the same fund all are held in a trust. We actually can’t access it. Dd can only get to it as a late teen/young adult if it is being spent on education related expenses.

DelphiniumTea · 12/08/2021 22:52

Well I'm damned by mumsnet because I borrowed money out of my babies accounts to buy a new washing machine. I was the only person who had put any money in apart from a fiver here and there from extended family. In those days, we were cash poor. And time poor!

We recently gave her 30k for a house deposit, only possible because my husband retired and got a lump sum. This thread is really daft. Nobody would take money from their kids if they had any other option.

My dd has now benefitted from loads more money than she could ever have saved up during her short working life and small monetary birthday gifts. She knows I borrowed from her to buy a washing machine when she was a toddler.. She is not traumatised and does not feel cheated out of her cash savings because at 30, she has finished up with more than she could ever have saved.

OP yanbu.