That it's not fair!?

[StompingMyFeet]

I've NC for this because I'm aware I'll sound like a Daily Mail article in my rant. I'm just so (irrationally) hurt and upset right now.

We own a 1 bed flat. We do ok, but there's basically no way we'll ever be anywhere bigger even though we both work.We have a DD already , but for the past 3 years I've desperately wanted another baby. There's no room, money would be tricky, childcare , going back to work , OH is getting quite old etc. Plus the impact on DD by having less .. attention,time,space etc. So I know it's a know, I try to make my peace with it and forget about it. Sometimes it just fucking hurts though, so much so that it becomes physical.

Today I saw one of our old neighbours who got moved last year (council) into a two bed. She had DS with her and a baby. While we were chatting she casually said "oh this is what happens when you get a two bedroom" and laughed. I kinda hated her a little bit then, smiled ,fussed over the baby again , said my goodbyes and walked away in tears.

This is the DM part, they don't work , mid twenties , barely good enough parents . It just feels so fucking unfair that I have to consider all the risks and cons and disadvantages because there is no safety net, and tell myself no. I don't begrudge them benefits,or the flat or whatever.. I know they need it and in a way we're a million times more fortunate. But fucking hell, I do begrudge them that baby.

I'll get over it, but today I just want to cry and stamp my feet and rant and shout It's not fair!

And I am not at all disabilist. I am angry that some people take advantage of the system designed to help people of need and deserve extra help.

I do worry that we are in a society that we can’t question anything without being accused of being in some way bigoted.

Again, I would, stress that many people need and serve help. I am happy to contribute to that. I do think the system needs to be improved to ensure we target that help towards those who need it most. There will always be an element of fraud attached to benefits, and I appreciate it can be difficult to manage this without impacting the genuine cases.

No easy answers,

The motability scheme provides you with a brand new car where as many people who work are driving around in 10-15 year old cars and are worried they will be priced off the roads when electric cars become complulsary.

It's not a free car, you pay for it using the mobility component of your qualifying benefit (e.g., PIP or DLA) and you must be on the high rate which denotes significant mobility issues.

Anyone is receipt of high rate mobility for PIP or DLA has gone through the application process, has provided medical evidence to support their application, and in the case of PIP will have also attended an assessment with a claims processor. You don't qualify for "having a (made up) bad back".

Fraud and claimant error accounts for less than 2% of the overall welfare spend. There is more money goes unclaimed by people who don't realise they're entitled or who don't want to claim than there is paid fraudulently. It is nowhere near as widespread as you'd think.

[quote Clocktopus]@Ideasplease322 people with mobility cars are playing the system? Seriously!? In order to qualify for a mobility car you need to in receipt of the higher mobility rate of disability benefits, to get these benefits you need to have provided evidence to the DWP that you are both disabled and have high level mobility problems. No one gets a mobility car by playing the system.[/quote]
I am sorry I have clearly offended you.

But in my experience mobility cars are abused.

I live in an area where there has been scandals about them being used as taxis etc. It is a local joke, certain types are cars are notorious,

Unfortunately they are abused. This does not in any way mean that they are not needed. My goodness they are. They are an incredible resource which have been a valuable lifeline to thousands of people In our society.

But we must be realistic, some people (hopefully a minority) take advantage.

You really think PIP/DLA is far too generous @bp300? the reason the mobility system provides brand new cars is because they need to be reliable, some people do get top of the range cars, but they will have paid a hefty deposit, and might be paying extra monthly in addition to the PIP /DLA payment, and im well aware working people are often driving around in cars that are 10-15 years old, my dh was untill we got the mobility car, the problem old cars is lots tend to go wrong with them

But the benefits are providing free money which is covering the cost of running a brand new car so essentially the claimant getting a brand new car for free. The benefits system is far too generous if they are providing this. If a vehicle is required for mobility purposes a basic used car would be sufficient.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Disability benefits are not "free money". You don't just rock up at the DWP and say "I have a hurting foot, gimme". Disability payments are for people who are disabled, they are to assist with the increased cost of living - and often reduced income - associated with being disabled. It is not a brand new car for free. The disabled person pays for it. The system is not far too generous and disability benefits are much lower than you'd think, do you know Carers Allowance equates to less than £2 an hour for 35hrs a week of care? Yeah. Totally fucking generous. A basic, used vehicle would not meet the requirements of the motability scheme, would not have the reliability needed, and is also unlikely to have required adaptations such as a lift or wheelchair access.

The motability scheme is Brighthouse Cars for the Disabled.

They pay every penny of their mobility component for most cars, often at significantly higher prices than a standard lease for a lower spec. They have to pay extra for particular types. And then they have to still pay for fuel out of their income (which could be wages as disabled people do have jobs) or from their care component. The company makes a fortune out of the scheme and manufacturers are happy because it can be a significant driver of car sales during times of recession.

It's not and has never been a free car.

I am going to bow out of this row.

No ones mine will be changed and it is a hugely emotive subject.

I would again reiterate I wasn’t making a blanket statement that everyone who get a disability car doesn’t deserve it. Far from it, the majority do.

In my personal experience, some are able to access the cars when they don’t genuinely need it. However I meant no offence to those genuine cases who we as a society should be charitable to.

Vehicles being new does not mean they are more reliable. Emissions regulations mean that new vehicles are vastly more complex and more likely to go wrong. A 10 year old Toyota is far more reliable than most new cars.

@Clocktopus

Fraud and claimant error accounts for less than 2% of the overall welfare spend. There is more money goes unclaimed by people who don't realise they're entitled or who don't want to claim than there is paid fraudulently. It is nowhere near as widespread as you'd think.

2% is the fraud that is proven and known about. Most fraud goes undetected. If everyone was honest, nearly everyone knows or has known someone who is abusing the system. The examples we see and hear about are not imaginary. It makes it worse for genuine claimants. But the general electorate didn’t just become hardened to the welfare system by accident, people see what goes on around them and it grates.

And I said I was out, but if I am stung by the accusations. Changes like this help, and won’t impact genuine claimants.

www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/35165/25k-cap-motability

Yanbu. Council house next to me is a 2 bed and my neighbour and her 4 kids have just been moved to a 3 bed house. She only had 1 child when she moved in.

@HelenHywater

Of course YABU OP, and I expect you know that. People on benefits live a miserable life. Your friend will have to find work when her child is 3. Benefits levels are so low, and there is the 2 child limit and the benefit cap. It's shit.

But it's also shit that in this country wages are so low and housing costs are so high, as are childcare costs. That even if you work full time you can't afford more than one child, or more than one bedroom. But that isn't the fault of benefits claimants. They aren't taking what is due to you. Direct your anger elsewhere.

Utter nonsense. I have a relative who has lived on benefits for 25 years, fathered eight children & has never attempted a days work. He's quite happy.

[quote Ideasplease322]And I said I was out, but if I am stung by the accusations. Changes like this help, and won’t impact genuine claimants.

www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/35165/25k-cap-motability[/quote]
That article is 10 years old!

The tories have really played a blinder getting everyone to kick down haven't they?

My friends young daughter had her disability benefits removed for over a year. The kid has had op after op over the last 4 years; needs a morphine patch for the constant pain, needs assistance through the night, help with showering, etc. She also uses a wheelchair if they go anywhere for the day.

She originally got the higher rate for mobility/care but then they were removed after an annual review even though her condition hasn't changed. Completely removed, not reduced! She's not disabled enough apparently - well, she wasn't until the court stepped in and rightly reinstated it at the higher rates. Yeah, it's a piece of piss claiming benefits in this country

People talk absolute shite on here.

YANBU to be upset about your situation however YABU thinking that being on benefits is some easy lifestyle with money handed to you, the reality is massively different.
My MIL is on benefits and because she's registered disabled and partially sighted I have to deal with a lot of her finances and it's a fucking nightmare, if you don't have family to help you out at times you'll find yourself without food, heat or out on your arse and living on the streets as the sanctions and cuts are ridiculous. For instance she's just moved house and because her new landlord didn't fill something in on time all her benefits have been stopped, if in those situations someone doesn't have family to help then you're left with nothing. Nobody would choose that life if they had options. To get a proper insight on what living on benefits is like I recommend the film 'I am Daniel Blake'. It's a very accurate portrayal.

Oh I see the thread has moved on to bashing the disabled. What lovely people you all are(!)

If you think PIP or DLA is easy to get you're very much mistaken. Most genuine claimants have to go to appeal to get their award. And at that point a doctor and a lawyer decides if they are entitled to it.

Still think you know better? Wind your bigoted necks in

Am on disability benefits and maybe being nasty bad person but agree with first poster things not fair always. Not to do with being on benefits. It's more it's if you in council housing. If in council, you not rich but can manage. In private and you in serious trouble. Rents more than housing money and cos of that only dodgy landlords with dangerous bad housing will take you. You not allowed to be safe if disabled. Know unreasonable but is unfair cos some disabled are allowed to be safe. If you have social housing. Unfair some allowed it but not rest of us. Am domestic violence victim and can't leave cos no safe home to go to. If was in council housing, would be rehoused cos is scheme to rehouse domestic abuse victims but only if already in social housing. Know unreasonable of me but feel like first poster things not fair. My disability is partly cos of abuse. Councils try to get rid of you and send you long way from home in unsafe private or hostels. They say no housing in their area but if you already in social housing, there is housing for you. If I had safe home, could recover and rebuild my life. Get well enough to work again but not allowed the chance.

People saying just have children and you get council housing not true. In my area, people who need housing like if homeless or lose their jobs or disabled and can't afford private, council does same as with abuse victims. Gets rid of the family to far away areas in the worst private rented. Only get rehoused bigger home by council if already in social housing.

Is very dangerous being on disability benefits and in private rented. You never safe. Few months from being homeless permanent risk. If homeless you either left to die on streets or put in dangerous hostels and HMOs mixed with people including just out of prison and often mixed sex. Is vicious circle trap cos bad dangerous housing makes you more ill and disabled and no chance of ever being well enough to maybe work. Some jobs can fit around some disabilities but you stuck in trap and focused on surviving not being homeless takes everything out of you so trap. If you not well enough to work you in serious trouble.

God this is a horrible and depressing thread. I despair that people struggling to afford a half decent lifestyle still think that those with the least money and fewest prospects are the people deserving of their resentment, hatred and anger.

Again i Am not in any way bashing disabled people. I am saying people absolutely should have benefits and the system is broken with many not getting enough, or having difficulty accessing the right benefits at the right time. It needs to be fixed to ensure people have the right help.

Benefit fraud isn’t about the disabled at all - only in that it harms genuine cases, taking resources away from those in need.

Everything I say is being taken up wrong so I best say no more.

But honestly not attacking disabled people - those who need help should absolutely get it.

That little girl does of course need transport, and it should never have been removed. That was not my point at all. I have never said the benefits should be removed.

@Womaninthemirror1

It’s not that the couple shouldn’t be getting benefits. It’s that there should be more support for families like yours. Childcare for starters should be much, much cheaper, and the Tories need to stop supporting house price inflation.

It isn’t benefits that are making things unfair here.

Exactly. I can't fathom the thought process behind being in a financially tough situation with no support, seeing a family who do get support, thinking that it's unfair that they get it and you don't, and come to the conclusion that you begrudge them for getting support and not the government for nurturing a societal situation in which two working adults cannot afford to have the children they want?

Seems a very nasty attitude to me. The constant desire to punch down is my least favourite things about our culture. It seems that a lot of people are happy to live in undesirable conditions as long as people they deem unworthy have it worse off.

P.S. amazing how everyone and their mam knows "benefit scroungers" yet the research shows that the amount of people cheating the system is very small. Much more money is lost due to tax evasion - perhaps we should be focusing our anger at the other end of the spectrum?

I think of where Britain was post-war and the aspirations then to invest to create a better society through investment in housing, compared to all the petty jealousy and hatred there is now.

I don't fully understand what has happened to make people so bitter and ignorant, but the views about benefit claimants and benefit fraud people hold are not supported by any research done.

[quote bp300]@x2boys Nobody is accusing you of playing the system. I have no doubt you are a genuine claimant but a believe the system is far too generous. The motability scheme provides you with a brand new car where as many people who work are driving around in 10-15 year old cars and are worried they will be priced off the roads when electric cars become complulsary.[/quote]
Oh yes, it's awful when disabled people have access to nice things

What exactly would make you happy about working people driving an old car? Would it make you happy if it was decreed that disabled people who get mobility cars aren't allowed cars that are any newer or nicer than their neighbours' cars?

I am so sad to see so much bitterness on this thread.

YANBU and I have been on benefits myself. For a year when my partner left until I got a job because my child went in to early childcare. It's frustrating to see people stay in council houses when their situation improves and they can easily afford to move. There is a lack of social housing and that does not help it.
The benefit cap has stopped large families from being able to claim, which I think is correct. If you choose to have a large amount of children you cannot and should not expect the state to pay.
I'm not talking about disability benefits. They are rightly given.