That it's not fair!?

[StompingMyFeet]

I've NC for this because I'm aware I'll sound like a Daily Mail article in my rant. I'm just so (irrationally) hurt and upset right now.

We own a 1 bed flat. We do ok, but there's basically no way we'll ever be anywhere bigger even though we both work.We have a DD already , but for the past 3 years I've desperately wanted another baby. There's no room, money would be tricky, childcare , going back to work , OH is getting quite old etc. Plus the impact on DD by having less .. attention,time,space etc. So I know it's a know, I try to make my peace with it and forget about it. Sometimes it just fucking hurts though, so much so that it becomes physical.

Today I saw one of our old neighbours who got moved last year (council) into a two bed. She had DS with her and a baby. While we were chatting she casually said "oh this is what happens when you get a two bedroom" and laughed. I kinda hated her a little bit then, smiled ,fussed over the baby again , said my goodbyes and walked away in tears.

This is the DM part, they don't work , mid twenties , barely good enough parents . It just feels so fucking unfair that I have to consider all the risks and cons and disadvantages because there is no safety net, and tell myself no. I don't begrudge them benefits,or the flat or whatever.. I know they need it and in a way we're a million times more fortunate. But fucking hell, I do begrudge them that baby.

I'll get over it, but today I just want to cry and stamp my feet and rant and shout It's not fair!

If you focus on the kids your dc is better off. Your neighbours dc will have limited funds throughout their childhood unless the parents manage to find decent employment. They may experience lower outcomes at school and their parents might not be able to afford even basic treats. The adults in this situation may well be feckless (although you don’t actually know that they are) but those children deserve every bit of assistance they get.

@ChameleonKola

YANBU to feel the way you do.

But your daughter has such a massive advantage here compared to those other kids. You may have to bear the brunt of the pain at not having a second, but your DD will benefit so much from having parents who carefully considered having her, who are level headed and sensible, who take responsibility for themselves and provide for themselves. Those attributes will rub off on her and influence the way she behaves and what she does in this world as an adult. I don’t blame you for being envious that they get to have a second baby and you don’t, but in truth the quality of life you can provide to your solo child will be so much better. Better to do a good job of it once rather than a crappy job of it twice, right?

FWIW I think everyone should think like you do. Unfortunately not everyone does, and the state rightly steps in to help those children so they’re not at a disadvantage, it isn’t their fault and with the right support it can help to reduce generational poverty and ensure they have a chance of breaking the cycle. Maybe you can think of their council house as not for the benefit of the parents but for the children, innocent children. If you were like they were then you’d want the state to step in to and make sure your children were housed, when they’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.

Thank you for this. It's a really kind way to tell me to get over myself and out things into perspective and puts a positive spin on it. I know you're right of course, it's just hit me really hard today, especially after that really glib and "funny" comment.

When I'm rational and ok I think(or try to) like you .

You're absolutely right in your last paragraph. I know this. I live with this at work as I work with kids and a lot of them are from deprived backgrounds. I want everything for those kids and they are amazing. You're right, it's not their fault, and they definitely shouldn't suffer because of other people's choices (be that their parents,society,the gvmnt etc) and supporting their parents it's the only way for them to have a better chance in the future.

Once again thank you.

I'm not angry anymore . I'm just... sad.

@Clocktopus

Oh yay, a chance for people to air hateful views about benefit claimants!

Barely a day goes by.

@suspiria777

How do you know that she's "barely good enough"?

They lived above us for 4 years and we were friendly. I know enough. And I didn't say she, I said they as the dad is just as responsible.

I won't go into details as it won't help anything really.

I can relate.

I have no issue with helping people that need help as a stop gap or who are unable to work. But there are those that choose to not work.

Someone was on the TV complaining she had been waiting to be re-housed for 13 years...yet she had two children clearly younger than that. So she chose to have more knowing she already couldn't provide a decent home for them. She doesn't have to. She gets to sit back and moan to the media about the council not helping her out of the situation she got herself into. And l knew someone who could work more hours but didn't because if she did, she wouldn't get her rent paid.

The issue is not that people get too much on benefits (as they definitely don’t). The issue is that for a lot of people working does not pay enough to provide a decent standard of living.

My experience was that it was worse under Labour OP.

I worked in a supermarket in the centre of London. I couldn't afford to live anywhere near there so had to commute in 1.5hrs each way and spend £200 a month on travel. My colleague the same age (21ish) lived round the corner in her own flat and only worked part time. She got her rent paid for and did the odd bit of 'cheeky overtime' which she never declared, and all of her wage was 'pocket money'. I was left with £50 a week after everything (except food) was paid.

I had an ex that lived in an expensive part of London, again in his own flat where the rent was £1100 a month. He worked two days a week as that was the max he could work without losing benefits. Again, all pocket money and it was a sales/commission job and the money was good. He was furious when the Tories came in and he was only allowed housing benefit for a room in a shared house. Very shortly after I dumped him he found another woman and got her pregnant so they could have a paid-for flat together.

People moan about austerity and the Tories, but it was the piss takers that ruined it for everyone IMO, and people in genuine need have suffered because of the greedy entitled ones.

I am on benefits. Please don't judge. It's for a long term mental illness, but it is assessed on a regular basis by the correct professionals.
During episodes of my illness, I am a completely different person.
I did work until it became too bad.
Anyhow, I have one child. He is 11 now. His father doesn't really contribute to his upbringing and he left our home a few years ago to move back in with his parents. He is in a very well paid job, but simply didn't want to financially support us when my illness became too bad.
Back to the topic, I feel guilty having to claim benefits, but I have to at the moment to survive and feed my child. I also know that having anymore children would be completely the wrong decision as I simply can not afford to. I hate the stigma as it is, but I simply refuse to bring more children into my current living situation (mentally and financially).
I know that benefits are there to help, and not to fund a lifestyle.
I am very grateful for what I get and do not want to "take the piss" essentially.
People's situations change all the time (and I hope mine does for the better), but people also have various sized families and then fall on hard times. The benefits system is there for those situations, but it shouldn't be abused like it does.
That's my input anyway.
X

So much made-up nonsense on this thread. People should be ashamed to post this ignorant crap.

Agree that the issue is that work does not pay.

If you think life on benefits is good - do it yourself. Nothing stopping you.

You're right, it's grossly unfair that these days even two adults in full time work can struggle to afford a basic standard of living. Something has to change, and soon. However, this isn't the fault of people on benefits. If benefits didn't exist, Britain be even more unequal than it already is. Keep in mind for future elections who it is that benefits from housing and living costs being disproportionately high and income being so low, and who their friends are. They would be relieved to know that your unhappiness is directed at benefit claimants, rather than the governments and policies that have caused all this. Divide and rule, and all that.

I can absolutely see why there is resentment.

Society does need to have a safety net to ensure people have a roof over their heads and food on the table.

However, that safety net isnt always set at he right height. We have all seen the people who work the system, who seem to be able to access a good income, housing and mobility car all through benefits. And yet others who really struggle on benefits, with children still living in poverty.

I wouldn’t want to live in a society we’re children go without the basic necessities, in fact as I type that I realise I do live in a society where that happens. And yet some adults can live reasonably comfortably never working.

The system isn’t really working, and it is desperately unfair on those who are being failed.

@FlumpyLump

I am on benefits. Please don't judge. It's for a long term mental illness, but it is assessed on a regular basis by the correct professionals. During episodes of my illness, I am a completely different person. I did work until it became too bad. Anyhow, I have one child. He is 11 now. His father doesn't really contribute to his upbringing and he left our home a few years ago to move back in with his parents. He is in a very well paid job, but simply didn't want to financially support us when my illness became too bad. Back to the topic, I feel guilty having to claim benefits, but I have to at the moment to survive and feed my child. I also know that having anymore children would be completely the wrong decision as I simply can not afford to. I hate the stigma as it is, but I simply refuse to bring more children into my current living situation (mentally and financially). I know that benefits are there to help, and not to fund a lifestyle. I am very grateful for what I get and do not want to "take the piss" essentially. People's situations change all the time (and I hope mine does for the better), but people also have various sized families and then fall on hard times. The benefits system is there for those situations, but it shouldn't be abused like it does. That's my input anyway. X

I'm not judging and I'm sorry. I'm just very low today.

I know how I sound, I just can't help it . It hit really hard today.

YANBU

You own your home, that puts you as better off than half the people in your age group. You could have another child, but are being sensible about ensuring a good above average standard of life for them first.

Benefits really do not pay enough for a standard of living. Certainly can’t even save to ever afford to own any home. I’d be willing to bet your friend thinks it’s not fair that you have higher income and own your home and have only one child to support.

There is a reason people have become hardened against the dependency culture and people essentially playing the system, having children they clearly cannot afford. So many people actually know a friend, acquaintance, neighbour, sibling, family member who is doing this. This being having children they cannot afford.
The in-work benefits argument is a just way to avoid the obvious point. No one is arguing against higher wages. But no one appreciates seeing others making easy choices of unlimited children while they make tough ones to limit their families.
Most people on this thread can probably name someone who is unfairly abusing the system. So it is a reality.

I feel your pain but there’s no way I can stay in my one bedroom flat now I’m pregnant. There’s just no room. I own my flat and there’s no way we can afford bigger as my partner doesn’t own any property. I am going to let my flat so I am still on the ladder and are going to rent a bigger place. It’s not ideal and it’s not fair some people seem to get stuff for free but hopefully one day it’ll pay off. I’ll have something to leave my child for example.

Oh, OP.

Just have another baby. It'll be fine .

If you think life on benefits is good - do it yourself. Nothing stopping you.

This, mostly.

Longer version: in any system inevitably there are winners and lovers. Having a secure rented home, greater potential to upsize when needed, and at a lower than market rate rent sounds fantastic. Locally, council waiting lists are unbelievably long and so many benefit-dependent households who are just as poor and vulnerable are in fact housed in the private sector, with all the insecurity and higher costs that brings. (Bonus scandal here about the wealth transfer of housing benefit to private landlords! - but it's easier to be exercised about feckless lazy bastards in council houses apparently.)

Being able to find enviable examples of people on different life paths is just one of those things. I miss the days when I was a tenant and didn't have to pay for someone to service my boiler, but I love being respected as a customer by my tradespeople rather than treated with contempt by my housing association.

Aside from the benefits bashing thing... it's very un-MN, but if your desire for a second child is making you this bitter, I would honestly change whatever you need to to have one. I know it's really annoying when people say that because obviously you'll have done a lot of soul-searching and trying to find solutions already, but (and having a second child was really important to me too) I wonder if this is not the right compromise for you, and I'm wondering how you might reconfigure your flat, and if you're being really realistic in your predicted earnings over say a 5-year horizon. You didn't say how old your DC1 is, but maybe even giving yourself permission to put the option of a second child back on the table would feel better.

All the people saying no one wants to be on benefits and it's so hard. I grew up with a single parent on benefits pretty much my entire childhood. I lived in a shit estate in a small town in Scotland, one of the most deprived in the NE of the country. Many of the folk in that estate, our neighbours, were on benefits. Many of my family remain on benefits to this day.

So many people take the absolute piss out of the welfare state. I know, I've lived it and been surrounded by it my entire life. I often think those that who say that it is such a hard life of benefits and that no-one would choose it really don't have a clue what they are talking about. There are many people who do choose that lifestyle and would do anything not to work. Some people are happy with just a free roof over their head and free money to pay bills, buy food etc and get to simply live their lives how they please. For some, its a necessity. For others - more than many would care to admit - it is a choice. And it's generational.

@Ideasplease322 people with mobility cars are playing the system? Seriously!? In order to qualify for a mobility car you need to in receipt of the higher mobility rate of disability benefits, to get these benefits you need to have provided evidence to the DWP that you are both disabled and have high level mobility problems. No one gets a mobility car by playing the system.

Don't get me started. If I vented my honest opinions I'd be have my account deleted.

YANBU. That's all I'll say.

Agreed with pp, just go on benefits then if you really think it'll be the life for you.

We weren't able to have children at all so in comparison your life already seems pretty charmed to me. It's all relative isn't it?

You are right. Its not fair.

*often generational. Not always. Some people have higher standards and work their way out of it.

@Vanishun

Agreed with pp, just go on benefits then if you really think it'll be the life for you.

We weren't able to have children at all so in comparison your life already seems pretty charmed to me. It's all relative isn't it?

Yes exactly. And one day op will have paid off the mortgage , will own her own home and likely have a secure home for life in twenty years time. Unless those on benefits secure employment they will have possibly insecure housing and when the kids leave education will be living on a pittance.