That it's not fair!?

[StompingMyFeet]

I've NC for this because I'm aware I'll sound like a Daily Mail article in my rant. I'm just so (irrationally) hurt and upset right now.

We own a 1 bed flat. We do ok, but there's basically no way we'll ever be anywhere bigger even though we both work.We have a DD already , but for the past 3 years I've desperately wanted another baby. There's no room, money would be tricky, childcare , going back to work , OH is getting quite old etc. Plus the impact on DD by having less .. attention,time,space etc. So I know it's a know, I try to make my peace with it and forget about it. Sometimes it just fucking hurts though, so much so that it becomes physical.

Today I saw one of our old neighbours who got moved last year (council) into a two bed. She had DS with her and a baby. While we were chatting she casually said "oh this is what happens when you get a two bedroom" and laughed. I kinda hated her a little bit then, smiled ,fussed over the baby again , said my goodbyes and walked away in tears.

This is the DM part, they don't work , mid twenties , barely good enough parents . It just feels so fucking unfair that I have to consider all the risks and cons and disadvantages because there is no safety net, and tell myself no. I don't begrudge them benefits,or the flat or whatever.. I know they need it and in a way we're a million times more fortunate. But fucking hell, I do begrudge them that baby.

I'll get over it, but today I just want to cry and stamp my feet and rant and shout It's not fair!

[quote worriedatthemoment]@lannistunut do you work for dwp ? Have you claimed benefits of know those who have and those who have lost their home and not been housed ? As i do [/quote]
My point is - people simultaneously say it is easy to live a wealthy live off benefits, but when it is suggested that others do it - suddenly there are obstacles. IMO, both can't be true.

@minatrina get of you how horse I know exactly how it works , your just condescending as you think your better as your one of those people that only your views and opinions count , despite numerous people with real life experience saying that some do work the system and that its unfair etc you deny it and its not important to worry about the small amount claimed fraudemtly in your opinion as its so small, yes maybe but like I said the stigma stands because of people that do abuse it so genuine claimants get tarred with the same brush and thats unfair
For many benefits is tough and not a choice and those people I want to see helped, those that choose not to work and think state should provide large houses and unlimited money, yes I and many would have a problem with this

@HelenHywater evidence is all around me and has been for years , I live on a large council estate and a deprived area I live and breath with some of these people, yes its a minority and the cap has changed for some , not all as the cap doesn't apply on kids born before a certain date
I live it and see it a lot, yes its a minority but these minority do not help the majority

@lannistunut I said some not all , many that get universal credit and low wage struggle , some on benefits struggle , some get by bit there are some families who do not
So the ones near me have a large 6 bed new council house , there kids have latest clothes, they go out drinking , they have a car, and tbf they do all this and put food on table so kids aren't not fed or clothed etc so they manage a pretty good life on benefits as kids born before the cap.
Their neighbour single mum working 2 kids and universal credit cannot afford a car , something is wrong there.
These are just a couple of examples
The system is broken, rents / mortgages all too high

[quote worriedatthemoment]@minatrina get of you how horse I know exactly how it works , your just condescending as you think your better as your one of those people that only your views and opinions count , despite numerous people with real life experience saying that some do work the system and that its unfair etc you deny it and its not important to worry about the small amount claimed fraudemtly in your opinion as its so small, yes maybe but like I said the stigma stands because of people that do abuse it so genuine claimants get tarred with the same brush and thats unfair
For many benefits is tough and not a choice and those people I want to see helped, those that choose not to work and think state should provide large houses and unlimited money, yes I and many would have a problem with this[/quote]
I'm not on a high horse, it's just that I'm not thick enough to think that my personal experiences carry more weight than actual research carried out by experts.

Perhaps if people like you weren't harping on about fictional benefits scroungers and instead we focused on the actual causes of inequality and hardship in our society, then there wouldn't be a brush to tar benefits claimants with in the first place.

@lannistunut so the answer was no to all my questions you don't see it just what you have read , like I said vast majority claim for all the right reasons and some of them struggle especially if in private rent as often not given enough for rent and have to top up out of other benefits , but some really know how to work the system and thats unfair on those that need it.
Half these issues wouldn't be an issue if rent / house prices were more inline with real wages and more council houses availible to many incl single peoplr who really do get a Raw deal

@minatrina I am not thick and your saying that what i have seen is untrue is that correct ? Not a single person lives like this everyone on benefits is claiming correctly and everyone is struggling ? Data is only valid from what is collected

@minatrina they aren't fictional perhaps if people like you realised that there are some like this we could help those who really need it more even an extra £10/20 would go a long way for many.
Another poster has family members who live like this are they fictional and making it up as well

[quote worriedatthemoment]@minatrina I am not thick and your saying that what i have seen is untrue is that correct ? Not a single person lives like this everyone on benefits is claiming correctly and everyone is struggling ? Data is only valid from what is collected[/quote]
Oh my god, I am begging you to read. I have already told you that I am not saying that there are zero cases of benefit fraud.

And I will say it for you again as you obviously didn't understand it the first time, the research is not just based on the amount of people who are found out. There are lots of different ways of collecting and interpreting this data. The studies are accessible by google, and google is free!

@minatrina you basically said fictional ? I clearly said minority , I have claimed benefits I know how it works and I know how shit they are for Some and how for some the lifestyle is ok and goes down generations , why would some work etc when they can be worse off ie not entitled to help with rent , no chance of a council house , cost of transport , childcare can barely make it worth it , I can't blame some and for that the system is broken, if your £10 a week better working but you have to struggle to work why would many ?
Rents and house prices being more realistic would help all

@minatrina there was no need to call me thick though , does that make you feel better about yourself or was that just to make me feel belittled as I am clearly not as educated as you

[quote worriedatthemoment]@lannistunut so the answer was no to all my questions you don't see it just what you have read , like I said vast majority claim for all the right reasons and some of them struggle especially if in private rent as often not given enough for rent and have to top up out of other benefits , but some really know how to work the system and thats unfair on those that need it.
Half these issues wouldn't be an issue if rent / house prices were more inline with real wages and more council houses availible to many incl single peoplr who really do get a Raw deal [/quote]
I do have some professional experience involving claimants yes (local authority).

@HelenHywater

but *@Iloveginger* yes, it's fucked for all working parents/people. But it's the govt you should all be angry at. Not benefits claimants. I can assure you it's harder for them. You're all directing your anger and envy at the wrong people.

I am not angry or envious of people claiming benefits, because I am in the fortunate position to have a job that pays well that I enjoy. So I can afford a liberal attitude. But I do sympathise with ordinary working class people that sit outside the threshold of benefits, scraping by and being no better off financially that their benefit gaming neighbours. Their voices are routinely shut down on these threads, we've already got one being called thick. Probably by posters that buy stuff off amazon and support an economy that keeps them trapped in minimum wage poverty. They have every right to feel resentful at the system.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@minatrina you basically said fictional ? I clearly said minority , I have claimed benefits I know how it works and I know how shit they are for Some and how for some the lifestyle is ok and goes down generations , why would some work etc when they can be worse off ie not entitled to help with rent , no chance of a council house , cost of transport , childcare can barely make it worth it , I can't blame some and for that the system is broken, if your £10 a week better working but you have to struggle to work why would many ?
Rents and house prices being more realistic would help all
[/quote]
I said fictional because you seem to think there are more people fraudulently claiming than there are. The extra people you've imagined due to your perception of anecdotal data are the fictional ones.

@minatrina I haven't given a number so how can you know , i used the word minority only which I am sure you know the meaning of,
I actually agreed with the op that it can be frustrating that many have to make decisions based on their homes and finances , whilst some don't as they don't have that worry , again a minority but it is true
Many people on minimum wage can have less disposable income than some on benefits depending on various things

[quote worriedatthemoment]@minatrina I haven't given a number so how can you know , i used the word minority only which I am sure you know the meaning of,
I actually agreed with the op that it can be frustrating that many have to make decisions based on their homes and finances , whilst some don't as they don't have that worry , again a minority but it is true
Many people on minimum wage can have less disposable income than some on benefits depending on various things [/quote]
But you've repeatedly said you think the numbers produced by experts are too low based on your anecdotal evidence. I didn't say you'd given a number, but you seem to think there are more than there is in reality. That's where the fictional part comes in.

If the minimum wage isn't enough to survive on (and I agree that it isn't), then surely that's an argument to increase minimum wage and reduce cost of living, not make people on benefits suffer to make you feel better.

@minatrina i hadn't even looked at the data or numbers you stated it was untrue that any was claimed incorrectly I stated that i know or knew of people
Minimum wage going up doesn't help , im not too thick to understand that
If min wage goes up then goods go up as businesses still need to pay overheads and or make profits and the big ones who make huge profits won't take the hit and for small business min wage can be crippling
What needs tackling but should of happened prob 20 years ago is that houses should not of gone up so much in price so quickly , and landlords capped more , 2nd homes taxed
Many many people can spend one wage or more just on rent or mortgage

@minatrina i am not making anyone on benefits suffer either , as stated I have been on them , have you ?

[quote worriedatthemoment]@minatrina i hadn't even looked at the data or numbers you stated it was untrue that any was claimed incorrectly I stated that i know or knew of people
Minimum wage going up doesn't help , im not too thick to understand that
If min wage goes up then goods go up as businesses still need to pay overheads and or make profits and the big ones who make huge profits won't take the hit and for small business min wage can be crippling
What needs tackling but should of happened prob 20 years ago is that houses should not of gone up so much in price so quickly , and landlords capped more , 2nd homes taxed
Many many people can spend one wage or more just on rent or mortgage[/quote]
Lots of economic arguments for and against. It's not as simple as you're making out at all.

@minatrina you were the one who said i was being untruthful saying I knew of people who abuses the system and that the data never supported that ? At no time did I say what percentage did and only used the word minority and spoke the truth of people i know who did or do abuse the system , so you challenged my real life experiences as not matching the data , I also said how I know many on benefits who really struggle and then some who get by ok, again based on experience and of people I know , at no time did I give percentages or claim that x amount did x,y, z .

@minatrina yes exactly its not simple , there is no simple fix, like you say arguments for and against and those that write the against think as I do, its not as easy as raising min wage and all is good is what I am saying and I am aware of that , despite being thick

[quote worriedatthemoment]@minatrina yes exactly its not simple , there is no simple fix, like you say arguments for and against and those that write the against think as I do, its not as easy as raising min wage and all is good is what I am saying and I am aware of that , despite being thick [/quote]
I don't see how any of that means that we should begrudge benefits claimants their money 🤣

[quote worriedatthemoment]@minatrina you were the one who said i was being untruthful saying I knew of people who abuses the system and that the data never supported that ? At no time did I say what percentage did and only used the word minority and spoke the truth of people i know who did or do abuse the system , so you challenged my real life experiences as not matching the data , I also said how I know many on benefits who really struggle and then some who get by ok, again based on experience and of people I know , at no time did I give percentages or claim that x amount did x,y, z .[/quote]
I think you're missing the point quite drastically

I can understand it OP - I can't afford to sort the damp problem in my house, and then I found out that this scrounging old woman is spending my taxes on renovating Windsor Castle.

Why are poor people attacking other poor people? Look to the real problem. Do not let the rich (the Daily Mail proprietor for example) make you hate people who are the same as you, as a smokescreen to the real parasites in society. The super-rich.

You're looking in the wrong direction. Don't hate people on benefits, hate that our country has terrible affordability of living.

Wages have stagnated, house prices have gone up, we haven't built enough homes to keep up with demand. It used to be that you could raise a family on one salary in a decent sized home.

Some people have made a mint out of low wages and rising house prices. Inequality is widening. It's not people on benefits who have all the money. Don't begrudge hapless people their sprogs in a council house, begrudge the billionaires in their mansions.

There Daily Mail, you're welcome to print that