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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That it's not fair!?

267 replies

StompingMyFeet · 11/08/2021 20:27

I've NC for this because I'm aware I'll sound like a Daily Mail article in my rant. I'm just so (irrationally) hurt and upset right now.

We own a 1 bed flat. We do ok, but there's basically no way we'll ever be anywhere bigger even though we both work.We have a DD already , but for the past 3 years I've desperately wanted another baby. There's no room, money would be tricky, childcare , going back to work , OH is getting quite old etc. Plus the impact on DD by having less .. attention,time,space etc. So I know it's a know, I try to make my peace with it and forget about it. Sometimes it just fucking hurts though, so much so that it becomes physical.

Today I saw one of our old neighbours who got moved last year (council) into a two bed. She had DS with her and a baby. While we were chatting she casually said "oh this is what happens when you get a two bedroom" and laughed. I kinda hated her a little bit then, smiled ,fussed over the baby again , said my goodbyes and walked away in tears.

This is the DM part, they don't work , mid twenties , barely good enough parents . It just feels so fucking unfair that I have to consider all the risks and cons and disadvantages because there is no safety net, and tell myself no. I don't begrudge them benefits,or the flat or whatever.. I know they need it and in a way we're a million times more fortunate. But fucking hell, I do begrudge them that baby.

I'll get over it, but today I just want to cry and stamp my feet and rant and shout It's not fair!

OP posts:
TheSkatesOfCoachBombay · 11/08/2021 23:44

@Theunamedcat

Thirty hours a week job searching when your youngest turns three thats for both of you if they don't think your making an effort you will be sanctioned if you miss a phonecall sanction if you refuse to work for free on one of there "job schemes" sanction they basically hassle nag cajole and punish you into work any work will do but when you DO get work it won't be enough and they will continue to ring you and in some cases sanction you for not taking calls (while your at work) so you will get more work and take on more hours

There are many cases of dwp incompetence no one would choose benefits unless they needed them

theunamedcat not all of that is accurate.

I'm a lone parent to one child.
I work full time and earn £22k pa
I live in a local authority house (2 bed)
I receive some Universal Credit (about half my rent, made up of child element and housing costs)

I am never ever pestered to get another job or even called by the job center! Once a year I log in to my journal to update/confirm my housing costs as LA rent changes every April with a small increase inline with inflation. But that's it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Anyway, I completely understand how you feel OP, and sometimes it's ok to be upset when we know we really shouldn't be, but we can't help it. 💐

bp300 · 11/08/2021 23:46

@PenguinIce

The issue is not that people get too much on benefits (as they definitely don’t). The issue is that for a lot of people working does not pay enough to provide a decent standard of living.
The benefits system is one of the reasons that working doesn't provide a decent standard of living. Housing benefit pushes up rents and house prices for working families.
Original poster
StompingMyFeet · 12/08/2021 00:32

I don't want benefits stopped, or people struggling or starving.

"That's what you get when you get a two bedroom." Well I wouldn't know would I? It just really rubbed me the wrong way.

Oh well... it is what it is I guess.

OP posts:
GLTM · 12/08/2021 00:49

What's the saying 'if you can't win join them?' or something like that.

I think you should reconsider having a second child. Perhaps look into what benefits you might be able to get if you did and whether you could go on the housing waiting list. I don't know if you will be eligible, but I wouldn't let finance hold you back.

sst1234 · 12/08/2021 01:16

@GLTM

What's the saying 'if you can't win join them?' or something like that.

I think you should reconsider having a second child. Perhaps look into what benefits you might be able to get if you did and whether you could go on the housing waiting list. I don't know if you will be eligible, but I wouldn't let finance hold you back.

Ok this wins the award for most terrible advice of the day. Having another child in the hope that you will a bigger council property? For this OP would have to sell her asset, spend all the money, give up her career etc. And after all that possible still not get a property. Oh dear.
AJGranny · 12/08/2021 01:39

Absolute state of some of the replies here.
OP if you think being on benefits is a cushy way for people to have more kids why don't you and your husband fake illnesses, lose your property and then get a council place (after a long stint in a homeless person's hostel obvs). According to some on this thread you'll even manage to get a car out of it. Enough people on this thread seem to know someone who is gaming the system so I'm sure you'll be able to get lots of advice on how to manufacture a credible claim.

lannistunut · 12/08/2021 06:44

The benefits system is one of the reasons that working doesn't provide a decent standard of living. Housing benefit pushes up rents and house prices for working families.. This is nonsense, talk about victim blaming. Lack of housing supply is what is driving house prices.

I would imagine the OP would also moan if there were a housing market correction which saw the value of her flat fall.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 12/08/2021 06:49

YABU. You own a flat, people on benefits have no financial security and they will not have a good life in the future.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 12/08/2021 06:52

Also if they both don't work they must be on JSA and made to be job hunting. If you are a couple it's not an option to not work. One person in the couple is required to work at least 24 hours a week.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 12/08/2021 06:53

@GLTM

What's the saying 'if you can't win join them?' or something like that.

I think you should reconsider having a second child. Perhaps look into what benefits you might be able to get if you did and whether you could go on the housing waiting list. I don't know if you will be eligible, but I wouldn't let finance hold you back.

OP owns a flat, she would not be entitled to a council house! Please do not give advice like this when you clearly have no idea how the system works.
lannistunut · 12/08/2021 06:59

@Waxonwaxoff0

Also if they both don't work they must be on JSA and made to be job hunting. If you are a couple it's not an option to not work. One person in the couple is required to work at least 24 hours a week.
There is little point posting facts, people just want to believe their own bullshit stories because they need a bogeyman to blame anytime life isn't perfect.

They give benefit claimants bars of gold you know, and a lifetime's supply of chocolate.

Knittingupastorm · 12/08/2021 07:04

YANBU. But any attempt to cut benefits will be met by cries of "heartless tory bastards" or worse. Think of all the "free" school meals bullshit last year. Basically you're not allowed to do anything that might hurt the children of people who choose to live off the state

Because they’re children who did not choose their situation. Whatever your opinion of those on benefits (and yours seems pretty low), it’s a horrible reaction to say “sorry child, go hungry, your parent made poor choices and now you must suffer.”

HelenHywater · 12/08/2021 07:15

Of course YABU OP, and I expect you know that. People on benefits live a miserable life. Your friend will have to find work when her child is 3. Benefits levels are so low, and there is the 2 child limit and the benefit cap. It's shit.

But it's also shit that in this country wages are so low and housing costs are so high, as are childcare costs. That even if you work full time you can't afford more than one child, or more than one bedroom. But that isn't the fault of benefits claimants. They aren't taking what is due to you. Direct your anger elsewhere.

MiddleParking · 12/08/2021 07:21

I don’t really understand why you’d pick them to be resentful of. To be blunt, yes your situation sounds pretty shit but so does theirs. It’s not like all the people who live in privately owned big houses are really hardworking and deserving. Why not direct your ire there?

Iris2020 · 12/08/2021 07:49

I know that moving is a big step but sometimes it's worth considering.
I was on a high(ish) salary in a very expensive area and couldn't afford decent accommodation at all. I was a lodger well into my 30s.

I took the plunge, took a 20% pay cut and moved to one of the cheapest areas in the country. I was able to afford my own (small but perfectly formed) 3 bed and my life has become much more stable as a result. I quickly climbed up the career ladder again.
It may seem like a risk to move away from your husband's current source of income but maybe it's a risk worth taking. Life is really much easier in cheaper areas in multiple ways.

Beautifulday345 · 12/08/2021 07:51

Without sounding rude, because I promise I’m not, don’t you need to move at some point anyway? Surely you can’t stay in a one bed long term with even one DC?

SerendipityJane · 12/08/2021 07:59

The benefits system is one of the reasons that working doesn't provide a decent standard of living. Housing benefit pushes up rents and house prices for working families.

Not developers who make it a marketing point that they only release so many houses a year to keep prices high ?

Theunamedcat · 12/08/2021 08:38

We have loads of housing in my area but no jobs they are actually building more houses here to apparently help with our "homeless problem" we have four people homeless in the area and none of the 800 planned homes are affordable

The problems seem to be jobs in one area housing in another there are plenty of local housing plans but no joined up national plans

pinkyredrose · 12/08/2021 08:51

your DD will benefit so much from having parents who carefully considered having her, who are level headed and sensible, who take responsibility for themselves and provide for themselves

Hmm so people on benefits are irresponsible, feckless idiots who children by accident? How judgemental.

Housing benefit pushes up rents and house prices for working families This is total crap.

Ideasplease322 · 12/08/2021 08:52

@Waxonwaxoff0

Also if they both don't work they must be on JSA and made to be job hunting. If you are a couple it's not an option to not work. One person in the couple is required to work at least 24 hours a week.
There is a huge amount of hidden unemployment with people classed as economically active and claiming sickness benefits.

While of course many are genuinely too ill to ever work, many could work.

It’s not a black and white issue as this thread has highlighted. People have strong views and it is a difficult subject to discuss subjectively- but the are undoubtedly people claiming sickness benefits who can work. Just as there are people who can’t access sickness benefits who genuinely need them.

We need to be able to have national discussion about the problems with our benefit system - how do we ensure the people who need help get it, while also tackling generational economic inactivity.

Winemewhynot · 12/08/2021 09:00

The issue isn’t that benefits are too high, it’s that wages are too low. It’s absolutely shocking that two adults who work full time have to scrap to get by, relying on food banks at time, as you often see in the papers and on the news. It often seems to be the lowest paid workers that are the most physically challenging eg factory workers and carers, it’s shocking, I respect those people so much for going out to work.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 12/08/2021 09:05

@Ideasplease322 OP didn't say they were claiming disability benefits. That's a different situation.

Clocktopus · 12/08/2021 09:16

The issue isn’t that benefits are too high, it’s that wages are too low. It’s absolutely shocking that two adults who work full time have to scrap to get by, relying on food banks at time, as you often see in the papers and on the news. It often seems to be the lowest paid workers that are the most physically challenging eg factory workers and carers, it’s shocking, I respect those people so much for going out to work.

Exactly this.

As much as some people on the thread might think everyone can just get a "better" job, work more hours, or get promoted its simply not possible for so many people and as a society we need supermarket staff, factory workers, carers, cleaners, hospitality staff, delivery staff, nursery/play workers, and so on. All jobs that tend to be low paid and where the majority will need to claim benefits top-ups. They're not "taking the piss out of taxpayers", they are taxpayers (for that matter so are unemployed people seeing as it is impossible to pay zero tax). Then there are the people who think these workers should take on more hours or get a second job so that they don't need top-ups. Why? Why should someone work 60+ hours a week across multiple jobs just to have a basic level existence and avoid claiming benefits when one job should be enough? Instead of being angry at low paid workers and thinking They're responsible for thus situation, direct it at the government who sets a minimum wage that's too low to live on and the companies who pay that wage in the knowledge that the government will top it up. They're the ones taking the piss out of taxpayers.

vivainsomnia · 12/08/2021 09:17

It might be unfair now, but it certainly won't be in years to come.

By the time your DD is 18, ready for Uni, you both likely be earning much more, you will have moved into a bigger place. You will have nice holidays, a nice home, go out and more important live without the worry of how you are going to afford things. You will be able to help your DD through Uni and start to plan life when she is self-sufficient and you'll have all that extra money to spend, able to look forward to a nice retirement.

If things don't change for them, she will have no choice but to look for work when the youngest is 5. Even if she has another child, for whom there wil be no additional UC, the time will come. She will likely earn them much less than you are. The big difference though will be when the youngest finishes school and they lose all or most of their UC. Their situation then will be nothing to envy.

sst1234 · 12/08/2021 09:26

@pinkyredrose

your DD will benefit so much from having parents who carefully considered having her, who are level headed and sensible, who take responsibility for themselves and provide for themselves

Hmm so people on benefits are irresponsible, feckless idiots who children by accident? How judgemental.

Housing benefit pushes up rents and house prices for working families This is total crap.

Anyone who has children knowing they have unsufficient mean to support them is irresponsible, as in OPs example where her friend did it to basically get a bigger council property. Or at least she did it on the hope that this is what would happen and it did, knowing she had no means to provide for her child. The wide eyed, faux rage at the obvious situation being described is a bit silly.