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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That it's not fair!?

267 replies

StompingMyFeet · 11/08/2021 20:27

I've NC for this because I'm aware I'll sound like a Daily Mail article in my rant. I'm just so (irrationally) hurt and upset right now.

We own a 1 bed flat. We do ok, but there's basically no way we'll ever be anywhere bigger even though we both work.We have a DD already , but for the past 3 years I've desperately wanted another baby. There's no room, money would be tricky, childcare , going back to work , OH is getting quite old etc. Plus the impact on DD by having less .. attention,time,space etc. So I know it's a know, I try to make my peace with it and forget about it. Sometimes it just fucking hurts though, so much so that it becomes physical.

Today I saw one of our old neighbours who got moved last year (council) into a two bed. She had DS with her and a baby. While we were chatting she casually said "oh this is what happens when you get a two bedroom" and laughed. I kinda hated her a little bit then, smiled ,fussed over the baby again , said my goodbyes and walked away in tears.

This is the DM part, they don't work , mid twenties , barely good enough parents . It just feels so fucking unfair that I have to consider all the risks and cons and disadvantages because there is no safety net, and tell myself no. I don't begrudge them benefits,or the flat or whatever.. I know they need it and in a way we're a million times more fortunate. But fucking hell, I do begrudge them that baby.

I'll get over it, but today I just want to cry and stamp my feet and rant and shout It's not fair!

OP posts:
Macncheeseballs · 11/08/2021 22:29

Clocktopus - anyone can apply for council housing but not everyone will get it

Clocktopus · 11/08/2021 22:30

Because its need-based so if someone has it, they need it.

Booboosweet · 11/08/2021 22:30

Yanbu. If they are two able bodied adults in their twenties they should be at work. There's no excuse.

LtDansleg · 11/08/2021 22:34

This reply has been deleted

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Clocktopus · 11/08/2021 22:35

If they are two able bodied adults in their twenties they should be at work.

DWP will be expecting the same. There are claimant commitments involved in UC which state that they must spend a minimum number of hours each week looking for work as well as undertaking other tasks such as signing on, attending job coach meetings, training courses, etc. If they don't meet these then they get sanctioned.

sst1234 · 11/08/2021 22:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

Babyroobs · 11/08/2021 22:38

I think it's odd to say you can't afford another child, there are numerous ways around this. You could rent your home out and rent a bigger place. If you had substantial childcare costs you may potentially be eligible for help with childcare through tax free childcare or Universal credit. You could do what we did ( and thousands of other couples do) with four kids and work around each other to save on childcare costs. My friend had 3 kids in a two bed starter home as they could never afford to move, and slept on a sofa bed in the lounge for years. If you want something badly enough you will find a way, it may not be perfect but many people don't have perfect lives.

Babyroobs · 11/08/2021 22:41

@Clocktopus

If they are two able bodied adults in their twenties they should be at work.

DWP will be expecting the same. There are claimant commitments involved in UC which state that they must spend a minimum number of hours each week looking for work as well as undertaking other tasks such as signing on, attending job coach meetings, training courses, etc. If they don't meet these then they get sanctioned.

Except that in reality once one of them is earning some paltry sum each month ( around £600 per month ) the other gets put in the 'light touch' group if they have kids and has no job search commitments.
Theunamedcat · 11/08/2021 22:42

Thirty hours a week job searching when your youngest turns three thats for both of you if they don't think your making an effort you will be sanctioned if you miss a phonecall sanction if you refuse to work for free on one of there "job schemes" sanction they basically hassle nag cajole and punish you into work any work will do but when you DO get work it won't be enough and they will continue to ring you and in some cases sanction you for not taking calls (while your at work) so you will get more work and take on more hours

There are many cases of dwp incompetence no one would choose benefits unless they needed them

sst1234 · 11/08/2021 22:44

@Theunamedcat

Thirty hours a week job searching when your youngest turns three thats for both of you if they don't think your making an effort you will be sanctioned if you miss a phonecall sanction if you refuse to work for free on one of there "job schemes" sanction they basically hassle nag cajole and punish you into work any work will do but when you DO get work it won't be enough and they will continue to ring you and in some cases sanction you for not taking calls (while your at work) so you will get more work and take on more hours

There are many cases of dwp incompetence no one would choose benefits unless they needed them

Being forced to find work, when you can work, is not going to cause uproar amongst the majority, who….surprise surprise, do work. Without being forced.
NoLeafClover · 11/08/2021 22:46

@Vanishun

Agreed with pp, just go on benefits then if you really think it'll be the life for you.

We weren't able to have children at all so in comparison your life already seems pretty charmed to me. It's all relative isn't it?

I'm afraid I agree with this, OP. And I try very hard not to do the whole 'well at least you get to have a child when some of us can't' thing. But I've spent the past few days watching my husband with our niece and nephew. He's amazing with them. He'd be such an incredible father. We ttc for a decade, I had 6 miscarriages, and now I'm in very early menopause. So no babies for us. And watching him with our lovely niece and nephew almost broke my heart.

So no, life isn't fair. Sometimes it feels viciously unfair. But you said that you wouldn't be having any more children anyway, due to work, finances, your partner's age, childcare. Your neighbour receiving benefits doesn't change any of those things.

'But fucking hell, I do begrudge them that baby'. This is a horrible thing to say. In all my years of desperately wanting a child, I've been sad, I've been devastated, I've been jealous, I've been self-pitying. But I've never begrudged anyone their baby. It's hard when you can't have the babies that you want. But other people having babies aren't stealing them from us, and that resentment that you are feeling will eat you up. Enjoy the child you have, that you are so, so lucky to have.

Kendodd · 11/08/2021 22:47

You're right op, it's not fair.

The problem as I see it is the lack of affordable housing, not this couple.

Theunamedcat · 11/08/2021 22:48

@sst1234

My point which you obviously missed is it isn't an easy ride its easier to work

Horst · 11/08/2021 22:51

It’s not about benefits though is it.

It’s about those who managed to get a council house being upsized just because they have had another child or two while the op can’t afford to upsize her home. The mortgage company are not going to suddenly lend more because she has another child.

That’s the problem if you own it’s perfectly acceptable to have as many people as possible in your home and you suck it up if your a council tenant it’s suddenly an outrage to be overcrowded and you must be sized up (even on a long waiting list in some places) but it’s expected and otherwise sad daily Mail face.

You even get couples moving in together into three bedroom houses both already having 2/3 children each then expecting to get a bigger house. My own aunt did this and was expecting to get two houses knocked though to create their bigger home.

Thehop · 11/08/2021 22:53

I’m so sorry OP. I really am.

suzy2b · 11/08/2021 22:53

You have a one bed flat where does your DD sleep

Original poster
StompingMyFeet · 11/08/2021 22:54

@LtDansleg

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.
Yes we fucked up. Massively. I know. I have the guilt and shame of that to deal with as well. We lost nearly everything and at some point we ended up in a room in a house share above a pub riddled with bed bugs and mice and getting more and more in debt. Buying this flat was amazing (we have already moved further away) , and we felt very grateful and lucky. I still do most days.

Maybe I'm just projecting my own failures.. who knows? I just know I'm not in a great place right now and that off the cuff comment felt like a kick in the teeth.

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 11/08/2021 22:57

MN isn't the best place to ask this, before the benifits reform of a cap of 26K, threads like this would be flooded with 'in jokes' about big tv's and goats call you a troll and YABU, funnily enough there is enough in the archive to show that when the cap came in that there was an uptick of multiple 1000 plus threads complaining about it.

But it does sound as though you are in the grey area of benifit cut off and minimum wage, but as has been MN since the dawn of time you will be told you YABU.

YANBU to be miffed, its the grey area of benifit cut off and being told to stand on your own.

NotWanting · 11/08/2021 22:59

Oh goody another benefit bashing thread.

You know what, let's have a look at some of the reasons some people are on benifits;
Out of a DV relationship, brought up thinking it is normal, disabled, never having the opportunities to better themselves - never known they even could, family break ups where mum is left with fuck all, illness, drugs, mental health... and yes sometimes just utterly feckless.

Who would you rather be ?

Original poster
StompingMyFeet · 11/08/2021 22:59

@suzy2b

You have a one bed flat where does your DD sleep
We're all in the bedroom atm. We bought a sofa bed for the livingroom and we'll move in there once she needs/wants more privacy.
OP posts:
NoLeafClover · 11/08/2021 23:04

Okay, well you need to forgive yourself for that @stompingmyfeet. Easier said than done, I know, but please don't keep beating yourself over whatever 'failures' you think you've perpetuated. Guilt and shame? Yeah they're close friends of mine, please don't let them in. They'll chew you up and spit you out. Is your child happy and loved? Clean clothes, food in their stomach, cared for, read stories at night, cuddles etc? Then please, have no guilt or shame. You are definitely not a failure.

Winemewhynot · 11/08/2021 23:22

@Babyroobs

I think it's odd to say you can't afford another child, there are numerous ways around this. You could rent your home out and rent a bigger place. If you had substantial childcare costs you may potentially be eligible for help with childcare through tax free childcare or Universal credit. You could do what we did ( and thousands of other couples do) with four kids and work around each other to save on childcare costs. My friend had 3 kids in a two bed starter home as they could never afford to move, and slept on a sofa bed in the lounge for years. If you want something badly enough you will find a way, it may not be perfect but many people don't have perfect lives.
That sounds like coping rather than living, which seems what the OP wants to avoid hence her decision to only have the one. I would want my child to have their own room, spacious house, holidays, days out, do whatever hobbies they like etc rather than have another and struggle to give them all of the above.

Also don’t get the posters saying ‘go on benefits’ surely we should be saying the opposite and encouraging people to better themselves and their lives Confused

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 11/08/2021 23:25

@Theunamedcat

"There are many cases of dwp incompetence no one would choose benefits unless they needed them"

DWP incompetence, yes. However the last part of your sentence is inaccurate. I grew up in a sink estate surrounded by benefits. Half my family are on benefits with me being told by one particular family member on a regular basis that I am a mug for working. And sadly the majority of my family agree with this sentiment.

Nat6999 · 11/08/2021 23:25

I'm on benefits, not through choice. I'm on them because I suffer from several chronic illnesses, have severe mental health problems & am autistic. I did work for 27 years until I became too unwell to continue, my having to finish work coincided with me becoming a single parent after my marriage ended. It's no joke being on benefits, you are reassessed regularly, the assessment process is terrible, they look at every part of your life from being able to read to if you can wipe your own bum, I have even been asked if I still have sex. After the assessment you then have to wait months for a decision worried sick that they may reduce or stop your money. People on benefits are treated like second class citizens by a lot of society, they have this image that we all sit around all day watching our massive televisions in our designer sportswear all day drinking can after can of booze & chain smoking. The reality is that we are terrified every time the postman comes in case there is a DWP brown envelope or a bill, the council houses you are so jealous of are in the main falling apart, councils either can't or won't spend the money to repair them. We have to watch every penny that we spend because we have so little money. This is the life that so many are jealous of.

FenceSplinters · 11/08/2021 23:28

Yanbu. We have one child. We wanted more, but we couldn’t afford a larger house to rent on our salaries. We moved a long way away from family when ds was a baby in order to be able to rent a house with a garden rather than a flat. However, that meant that childcare costs were a lot as we had no family to help, and we both work full time.
It does grate when I see people who don’t work, but have lots of children.