‘We didn’t bring you up to have a cleaner’

[Itsthendoftheworldasweknowit]

What does this mean?

I have two amazing cleaning ladies who come for 4 hours every fortnight. They do what I call ‘The big clean’ the whole house, dusting, bathroom, windows, kitchen, hoover, mop, oven, fridge etc. In between this time I do the loos, kitchen everyday and hoover & mop a couple of times (stone tile floors)
I HATE cleaning, I have a toddler and work part time, I cook lots and don’t mind it, but cleaning isn’t my thing.
I’d rather pay money for cleaners and forgo a new outfit or a meal out, that’s how much I dislike it 🤣it’s impossible to do it with Dd around, plus I’d rather spend time with her than breaking my back cleaning.
Today, my mum said ‘We didn’t bring you up to have a cleaner’ she then began to list how she’d do the bathrooms one day, the downstairs the next etc etc..fine, but I don’t want to spend every day cleaning. She also said how she had 3 kids, not 1 🙄
I said how I’d rather spend some money on cleaners so we can enjoy our weekends in the sun (live abroad) and relax, rather than buying myself loads of new clothes or getting my eyebrows done etc (things she and my sister spend a fair amount on)
AIBU to have cleaners?!

I’d feel like her of mine decided they didn’t want to clean their own home I have to admit. They have seen us both share work, parenting and running a household so know it’s possible to do so hopefully will follow the same route.

Oh, I know it’s possible. I’ve done it in the past in my own home, and for pay for other people.

But I don’t want to and I can afford to pay for someone else to do it.

Hopefully your kids will be bright enough to know that even if they can do something they dislike, it doesn’t mean they have to.

Many women really appreciate having a job that they can fit around their children/elderly parents/other family commitments, that allows them to be their own boss, that is flexible, where they can pick and choose their clients, and that pays them significantly more than minimum wage.

@mathanxiety

No I had no choice at all if I wanted to feed my children. My ex husband walked out and left me with four primary school aged children to raise alone, there was no way of my being able to work and pay childcare, just impossible. This was mid-nineties and I had £450 a month to live on plus incomes support of £1 per week and child benefit. Out of that I had to pay household bills and the endowment for the mortgage as well as feeding and clothing the five of us.
If most women enjoy cleaning rather than working for big companies and making a mint I don’t see them lol.

If most women enjoy cleaning rather than working for big companies and making a mint I don’t see them lol.

But the choice isn’t making a mint at big companies. The choice for me was cleaning, shop work, hospitality or low skilled admin office work. I tried all of them and cleaning was easily the best and most liberating. I wasn’t ‘managed’ by others which gave me a sense of freedom that made working not miserable drudgery. It’s the only job I’ve had where I haven’t regularly cried in the toilets.

I wasn't either. I always have, even after I gave up work. It's my.choice.

[quote Helendee]@mathanxiety

No I had no choice at all if I wanted to feed my children. My ex husband walked out and left me with four primary school aged children to raise alone, there was no way of my being able to work and pay childcare, just impossible. This was mid-nineties and I had £450 a month to live on plus incomes support of £1 per week and child benefit. Out of that I had to pay household bills and the endowment for the mortgage as well as feeding and clothing the five of us.
If most women enjoy cleaning rather than working for big companies and making a mint I don’t see them lol.[/quote]
Its not about enjoyment though is it? Sometimes you do have to do things you like out of need. (This includes people in 'better careers doing a job they hate cos they have a massive mortgage and bills to pay).

I also know of women who have quit jobs such as lawyers because they disliked the hours / pressure and wanted to spend quality time with their family whilst they could. They went and did jobs 'far below their calling' by choice.

I think you are missing the point of what a lot of women themselves have said on this thread, because you are unwilling to listen and acknowledge that there may be women for whom cleaning jobs are a godsend or something that allows them a lifestyle that is better for their circumstances.

I dont know any cleaners who love their job. It's more that they're unskilled workers and there's nothing else available. My mum is a housekeeper for a national trust property and it's amazing how few guests with enough money to afford a lengthy stay aren't even toilet trained or have enough awareness or manners to not leave things in a total state. To me, having a cleaner in your own home is saying you think you are too good or important to clean up your own mess. Im with your mum.

@Helendee

My last word on the subject is I doubt that many women began life with the desire to end up cleaning others people’s muck up. I would like to know how many middle class women work as cleaners.

My XSM did it for years and she's very middle class. She liked the money.

I think older ladies seem to have a "pride" thing about cleaning .Many were housewives and prided themselves on a "spotless" home(what is that I wonder!) Now in 21C Britain we all have better things to do with our time thankfully . Maybe shes a little envious? Pay no attention and enjoy your cleaning ladies .Also you are giving someone a much needed job!

I dont know any cleaners who love their job

I suspect that depends on the type of cleaning. A self employed house cleaner is far more likely to enjoy their work (like mine does) than a hospital or hotel cleaner who didn't have the flexibility of hours, choice, being their own boss, or seeing the appreciation of their clients, as a domestic cleaner does.

I would like to know how many middle class women work as cleaners.

I suppose I’m considered middle class in a broad context and when my youngest goes to school I’ll probably go back to cleaning. I’m uni educated, big house (money pit), H earns well, skiing holidays etc but it’s about my flexibility around the children, my enjoyment and capabilities. One of my friends has a phd and is a primary TA because it suits her priorities now.

My old cleaner drove a bmw. I have no idea of her finances, but she seemed comfortable.

Hi OP, I have every sympathy with your position. I came from a very traditional working class family and when I hired cleaners and a gardener I had the same pushback from my mum and dad. It is hard as it feels like you are being judged for perfectly acceptable decisions which allow you more leisure time, and not to be knackered at the weekend. Particularly with small kids and a demanding job anything you can do to lighten the load is a positive. Ignore the pushback. I said this is the way we are doing things and it is our call. I do understand that in working class culture this would be seen as a waste by some people, but it isn't and I don't.

If you can afford it and it makes your life easier I really don't see the problem.

Remind me of my uncle who once said that if he were a woman he would take pride doing the cleaning himself, making some dig at a mother of 3, working full for having a cleaner.

But, see, it's not a source of pride as a man

I worked with someone who told me her mother (had her own key, ha!) had called in to her house while she was out to (poke her nose where it wasn't wanted) collect something and left her a note saying "I didn't bring you up to live like this". I was shocked, what an absolute cow, but didn't say so. Colleague, however, thought it a quite reasonable for a mother to do. My mother would never have done such a thing, although she might have had an unmentioned and surreptitious tidy up. How much dominion these controlling mothers have in their adult children's lives. Depressing.

If most women enjoy cleaning rather than working for big companies and making a mint I don’t see them lol.

I mean most of us do or have done jobs that we don’t particularly enjoy to pay the bills and feed our families, right? I’m just not sure why you think cleaning is so, so different to everything else we outsource.

I have a better handle on how my cleaner feels about her work because I see her every week, she works for a lot of my friends as well, she feels able to tell us about the things that bother her, than I do about the bloke in the abattoir who slaughters my meat or the person in the fields picking my vegetables or berries. I could grow my own food (and in fact I was raised knowing how to grow my own grain and slaughter and butcher my own meat) but I also choose not to do those things, because I prefer to spend my time on other things- either paid employment or the parts of my life I actually enjoy. (Key learning of growing up on a farm: I really hate farming.)

You experience of cleaning seems to be understandably tangled up with the circumstances that forced you into doing it( which is understandable but probably not able to be generalised across all women who do domestic (rather than commercial) cleaning for their work.

Sadly the class system in this country makes cleaning appear undesirable to many. I used to work for a big firm in the city earning a pittance doing admin. However, to the outside world I probably looked quite successful suited and booted and walking into a shiny office block. Meanwhile a cleaner would have actually been on a higher hourly rate than me. Same as typical manual work mainly done by men. The builder on the train home may well earn more than the suited and booted young guy who is paid crap to photocopy documents in an office.

You didn’t bring me up to have a cleaner? What did you bring me up to aspire to?

Bet she wouldn't do it if she was a millionaire

There's lots of things I'd do differently if I was a millionaire. And so would you I'm sure.

I love my job, my colleagues and my managers, but I'd be out of there like a scalded cat and onto a sun lounger in a villa overlooking the Mediterranean if I became a millionaire.

Can I just point out it's not just older ladies who take pride in a spotless home and it certainly isn't a thing of the past.I know young women in their twenties who feel like failures if they can't clean their skirting boards every week. And that's as valid a choice as any, not something to be looked down upon or treated as it's from the dark ages, just because it might not suit me or you or we have different priorities.

my question was to ask how feminists felt about employing other women to do boring and menial work

What - the same boring, menial work that the vast majority of women (even middle class ones!) have to do anyway, often alongside another job, but without getting paid for it?

I love my cleaner. She loves cleaning (for money). I would rather eat beans on toast every day than have to give her up.

I advertised for a cleaner, I didn't specify what sex they had to be but there are definitely more women. The women I know who work as (private) cleaners tell me it's well paid and flexible around children, and they are definitely 'middle class'.

I don't get all this "I'd have to clean up for the cleaner' nonsense either - do you live in total chaos? We tidy our belongings away every Thursday so that the cleaner can clean properly on Friday. It als,o means there's never more than a weeks worth of 'stuff' lying around. But I don't clean anything before she cleans, what would be the point in that?

@lazylinguist

my question was to ask how feminists felt about employing other women to do boring and menial work

What - the same boring, menial work that the vast majority of women (even middle class ones!) have to do anyway, often alongside another job, but without getting paid for it?

Feminists are the same as anyone else, if they can afford it they will employ someone to do a job which frees them up to do something else.

Cleaners, gardeners etc are employed people, they are not 'servants'.

YANBU- it's about what you value and what you do with your time. If you can afford this to make you feel better, do it!

I understand. We live in a small flat. I am quite houseproud but we're both around a lot atm. Even then we probably don't deep clean as much as we should- we have other things to do and would like some downtime and fun time, too! If DP goes back to the office and is out all day/away over night some times & I swap jobs to something further away and longer hrs- which is the plan- we have already discussed getting a cleaner. So we can enjoy our home and time with each other and not have stuff to do when we're tired. We can still bleach a loo if necessary.

My mum questions this because my flat is small, but it's about making the most of time available and your priorities. I can afford it and would also happily cut back on a couple of things to keep it.

I don't get all this "I'd have to clean up for the cleaner' nonsense either - do you live in total chaos? We tidy our belongings away every Thursday so that the cleaner can clean properly on Friday. It als,o means there's never more than a weeks worth of 'stuff' lying around. But I don't clean anything before she cleans, what would be the point in that?

Exactly. One of the best things about having a cleaner is that it forced us as a family (and now me, alone) to not let the place turn into a muck heap. It only takes a few minutes to put stuff away, but it means that the house is always acceptably tidy. If I had to give up my cleaner, I'd not find the motivation to have a general tidy every Friday at 9 (she arrives at 10). And I wouldn't have had "D's coming in the morning" to hold over my kids' head so they HAD to pick everything up off their floors.