To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

Honestly, I agree with you OP. But I also think family toilets are needed-

I took DS to an attraction today. We both needed the toilet. I’ve been before and the women’s cubicles are ridiculously small, but I can’t leave my 4 year old outside when it’s crowded. Took a punt on nobody needing the disabled toilet whilst we were in there and nipped in for a wee. I feel guilty, but not much I could do. There is no way that a pram could go into the women’s toilets at the place we were in today, so I’d imagine that a lot of people with babies use the disabled toilet too.

YABU because you have the wrong AIBU

You should be asking the aquarium to provide a loo for mum's big enough to take a pram in with them.

It's shit going out and about as a mum with a pram. Do you feel guilty and use the disabled? Do you do as OP suggests and take your baby into the main loos? Then half the time you can't even fit the pram in outside the cubicle door without getting in everyone's way, never mind having to wee with all the world walking past.

And that's just to go to the loo yourself. Then you have to queue all over again to use the nappy changing facility, if there is one. And on the rare occasion you have DP with you and think 'oh goody, it's his turn' you still end up doing it because the nappy changing space is in the ladies.

Honestly, I feel for you. I see what you're saying about not having a choice, but I don't really see there's a choice for mum's either. (But they shouldn't rattle the door).

All of you who keep bringing up invisible disabilities need to reread what OP has said. She has NEVER said that such people with a legitimate reason shouldn’t use the disabled toilet and she has also said that she was NOT rude to the ladies who she encountered for that exact reason. Of course anyone who needs it because they are disabled should use it! That includes temporary issues that mean you simply cannot physically use the other facilities (eg broken leg, birth injuries - both very valid reasons!) All she has said is that could they have a radar key to prevent abuse… but clearly most of you think you are entitled which is the EXACT problem she raised! Too many people abuse such facilities which is why a radar key would be a sensible option! OP I would encourage you to send a message to the aquarium and raise this as an issue as things will only improve if we raise the issues.

Theloftmonster

Why are the disabled community expected to campaign for extra disabled loos rather than parents being expected to campaign for family friendly toilets?

You do not use the disabled toilet unless you are disabled or it is also an allocated baby change area.“

In the meantime, women must use lavatories with the door open?

@stripedbananas

YABVU

it's these mothers with prams and lots of DC in tow who will predominantly be using the facilities at the aquarium. Talk the aquarium and ask them to build suitable facilities for those parents so that they no longer are forced to use the disabled toilets.

I actually can't believe you'd want the special lock put on to stop them using it. Fair enough if it was a public toilet in a shopping centre or something but not an aquarium which is full of parents juggling small children. All you had to do was wait till they'd finished.

Why should a disabled person have to wait for a non disabled person to use the disabled toilet?

Can I ask OP, and I'm hoping you don't think it's a rude question.

Is there a reason disabled people can't wait?
I would be interested to know what percentage of disabled people (wheelchair users for example) can't wait for the loo compared to none disabled people or children. My impression for MN and life is that disabled people expect immediate access to a toilet and no queue.
I remember an arrangement in an office I used to work at years ago between a wheelchair user and somebody else. Wheelchair user angrily said she would rather somebody with diarrhoea shat themselves in the street than use the disabled. She said she had no bladder/bowel problems (may or may not have been true, no reason to disbelieve though) but that wasn't the point. Disabled toilet was for disabled people and nobody else for any reason as far as she was concerned.

@MrsSkylerWhite

Theloftmonster

Why are the disabled community expected to campaign for extra disabled loos rather than parents being expected to campaign for family friendly toilets?

You do not use the disabled toilet unless you are disabled or it is also an allocated baby change area.“

In the meantime, women must use lavatories with the door open?

Well they shouldn't be using disabled toilets anyway.

Having been an ambulant disabled parent with a pram, I think YABU to question or even expect her not to use the toilet, regardless of her ability. That said, I would still be asking the aquarium to fit a RADAR lock.

With the door locked the aquarium will hopefully end up with pressure from parents needing to borrow the key to access the toilet and will make the proper adjustments needed for a family venue. I’ve noticed that many places now have one RADAR loo and one unlocked, perhaps for reasons such as this.

@LammasFires

It’s rather sad that all the stuff we campaigned for 30 years ago has lead to an increasing number of self-centred, solipsistic women who trample the disabled under their designer wheels. The same ones that occupy wheelchair spaces on buses and shriek if someone uses a P&C space without a child. Horrible women.

Wow.

Do men ever do this or is it exclusively women that you hate?

Dripping with misogyny.

Well my designer wheels will be coming into any suitable toilet with me. Do you seriously think a whole group of society should be degraded by having to openly toilet? Is that a prissy princess choice in your eyes? I can assure you it doesn’t feel so privileged when you realise the is no provision for your needs and you have to use a facility intended for others to protect your dignity.

My impression for MN and life is that disabled people expect immediate access to a toilet and no queue.
Meant to add, none disabled people (well, women, almost never a queue for the mens) routinely queue for the toilet.

This thread has shown me that many mothers don't care about people like me, who might have to cancel the visit all together and go home because we don't have any other options.

It's not about not caring, it's having the same need for the same loo!

You can't leave a baby alone, you can't carry a baby while you seat on the loo - well, seating is fine, it's cleaning yourself you need hands for..
you got to put the pram somewhere.

It's not necessarily having a quick wee, it's often very heavy bleeding. You can't expect someone to deal with that with the door opened just because she had a baby!

The advice for everybody using the toilet is the same, go earlier than you need, you never know how long you will wait. It could be a person in a wheelchair needing a lot of time in front of you, you'll still be waiting.

The majority of toilets near me are "accessible" rather than "disabled" - which I took as anyone who needed to use the toilet who had extra accessibility needs could! In that aquarium situation if there's no other suitable toilets, the mum and pram obviously had to use the only toilet they could, it's annoying she rattled the handle, but you were still able to use the toilet and access the facilities you needed, wouldn't it make sense she could also access the facilities she needed?

Jesus, the level of entitlement on this thread Of course YANBU. Maybe if there's a radar key all those cf parents will campaign for more pram-accessable other toilets (for everyone, not just women). I don't know why that's suddenly your job!

I was recently really uncomfortable with having to use the disabled loos when shopping because the women's toilets were out of order. All I could think of was some poor person who needed them being stuck in that ridiculous line. It was bad enough worrying if my toddler could wait that long.

As a side note, we really need a campaign for equality of numbers of toilets, not floor space. So many more places for men to pee because they are given equal floor space, as if that's fair then.

Not having a bench or something forcing you to wait standing up when you can't is not on - but that's another complaint for the place, not the loo user that was in front of you.

@LammasFires

It’s rather sad that all the stuff we campaigned for 30 years ago has lead to an increasing number of self-centred, solipsistic women who trample the disabled under their designer wheels. The same ones that occupy wheelchair spaces on buses and shriek if someone uses a P&C space without a child. Horrible women.

That's a really nasty post. How much hate do you have for other women? 'Designer wheels' If the woman in question has a cheap buggy are they spared your contempt? I don't understand someone who has your level of hatred for people you've never even met.

Also - adding a radar lock is taking away the availability of the toilet - it'd take more time to find a staff member with a radar key if you didn't have one, wait for them to unlock it then use it surely than waiting for someone else who needs to use the toilet to use it? And that's assuming someone with restricted mobility was able to spend time hunting around for a staff member / access the areas the staff may be if they didn't have their own key. Added the people with invisible disabilities who may feel unable to ask for a radar key from a staff member if they don't have one, it seems to be a solution that causes more problems!

Today 21:28 Acarp

MrsSkylerWhite
Theloftmonster

Why are the disabled community expected to campaign for extra disabled loos rather than parents being expected to campaign for family friendly toilets?

You do not use the disabled toilet unless you are disabled or it is also an allocated baby change area.“

In the meantime, women must use lavatories with the door open?
Well they shouldn't be using disabled toilets anyway.“

Sorry Acari, don’t get your point. Are you saying that new mothers should be expected to use the regular lavatories and leave the door wide open?

@Kendodd

Can I ask OP, and I'm hoping you don't think it's a rude question. Is there a reason disabled people can't wait? I would be interested to know what percentage of disabled people (wheelchair users for example) can't wait for the loo compared to none disabled people or children. My impression for MN and life is that disabled people expect immediate access to a toilet and no queue. I remember an arrangement in an office I used to work at years ago between a wheelchair user and somebody else. Wheelchair user angrily said she would rather somebody with diarrhoea shat themselves in the street than use the disabled. She said she had no bladder/bowel problems (may or may not have been true, no reason to disbelieve though) but that wasn't the point. Disabled toilet was for disabled people and nobody else for any reason as far as she was concerned.

I’m not disabled. Takes me 10-15 seconds to pee and be out of the cubicle. I don’t have to deal with wheelchairs, sticks, braces, other kit, sensory issues, sequencing issues...which take longer. Why can’t mothers use all that intensity, confidence and purchasing power to make businesses provide appropriate facilities?

Yabu
The mum was using the only space accessible to her. She was not holding up anyone with a disability who needed the toilet. As for the door rattling- sons toilets looked locked when the door is just shut so that’s maybe why it was rattled. Nobody made you wait to use the loo do pram mum was irrelevant to you really. Like you say, the family before are likely to have hidden disabilities.

The reason the aquarium probably doesn’t have radar entry and s due to the fact they don’t have adequate facilities for people with prams or larger families. Seems bizarre you’d rather a disabled toilet sit empty while mums were it use san pro with the door open.
Obviously someone with a disability should have priority but there is no harm in others using the toilet too.

Yes you should be able to use the disabled toilet but wow I'm shocked you expect mothers with prams to use the toilet with the door open. No. It's not happening.

@Kendodd Not all disabled people are in wheelchairs. Yes, there is often a reason that disabled people can't wait for the toilet, depending on the disability they have. They might also need more time in there due to their disability, hence not wanting a queue full of people who can use the other toilets.

Jesus. Poor OP. YANBU. But this site seems to have very little understanding of the rights, and needs, of the disabled.

as has been said....why put your faith in radar keys when anybody can buy one?

So many people on Mumsnet hate mums. Especially ones who have the audacity to take their children anywhere with them.
It's somewhat surprising, given the intended nature of the site.

That's a really nasty post. How much hate do you have for other women? 'Designer wheels' If the woman in question has a cheap buggy are they spared your contempt? I don't understand someone who has your level of hatred for people you've never even met.

Not all women. And not hatred, more contempt for the ones who regard being a parent as trumping other people’s rights.