To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

[quote sofiegiraffe]@Justrealised

So if I call ahead to a venue and I am told there is no separate provision for you and your baby in her pram, you have to use the accessible toilet (many places will no doubt give this advice), are you saying I should just then not go there? [/quote]
That's you're call. Most sane people would still go, I'm sure.

My point was that people don't call ahead, they don't consider their own needs and do rely on provision made for another discrete group of people. If more parents did call ahead it may invoke and ask if they have their own provision maybe better parent and child provision would be installed.

Just out of curiosity what would you do if there wasn't any accessible facilities or they weren't big enough to accommodate you (I've seen some labelled up that you couldn't swing a cat in and are clearly no fit for purpose)?

Family orientated places should be providing separate facilities as it could be argued directing all non disabled people with children/ prams etc to use the accessible facilities negates the adjustments they've made under the equality act.

@Clymene

If parents want toilets with specific facilities for them, then they need to campaign for it. For most parents though, that time of trying to go to the loo when in charge of small children is but a mere blip in their lives and once they're on the other side, they barely give it a thought.

Disabled people can't move on from their disability.

I think using disabled toilets is no better than parking in spaces reserved for disabled people or refusing to fold your pram for a wheelchair user on the bus.

Just selfish.

Completely agree

Using the only toilet I could access when specifically directed to by the business whose toilet it was is an odd definition of selfish.

I hated needing to use the loo when DS was new. It's much easier now he's up on his feet, I can take him into a cubicle with me and he's only managed to open the door on me once. The difficulty comes in when they're smaller IMO. I did have to use the disabled loo a few times although I only did this when the baby change was in there too. A couple of places have family bathrooms but often the baby change is also a feeding area and understandably people don't want to feed a baby next to a toilet so they've been left out. By far the best family set up I've seen is at silverburn shopping centre but it takes up a lot of space.

Just out of curiosity what would you do if there wasn't any accessible facilities or they weren't big enough to accommodate you

It hasn't happened yet so I don't know. But I definitely wouldn't leave my baby anywhere unattended nor pee in full view of Joe Public, that's for sure.

I agree leaving the door open isn't a valid option. Also for those with older children with a foot under the door/talking so you know they are there, that doesn't help if they wander off whilst your mid wee.

I also agree that it shouldn't be down to disabled people to campaign for the benefit of parents.

However I think in order to be effective it would need both disabled people and parents to campaign together. Otherwise
Parents: there aren't any suitable toilets for us.
Response: yes there is use the accessable toilets. There is no reason you can't share.
Disabled people: parents using the accessable toilets means there aren't enough available for us
Response: well parents haven't complained.

Would the best way to start be a petition on change to bring it to the attention of MPs or would something else be required first?

I occasionally have to use accessibly toilets. I have a severely weak bladder and bowel so when I need to go, I need to go. Accessible toilets are often more conveniently placed so if it happens I can dash to them rather than mess myself enroute to the ladies room.
I will use the ladies room if it's a scheduled toilet stop but especially when DS was in a pram and I had to consider him, I'd use the accessible/disabled toilets. By the time I'd fannied on positioning the pram at the entrance of the cubicle and sorted my stuff out, I'd have wet/shat myself.
Quite often, even now, if I need a wee, I'll be starting to go before I've finished unbuttoning my trousers

@paddlingon

Using the only toilet I could access when specifically directed to by the business whose toilet it was is an odd definition of selfish.

Agreed

Just out of curiosity what would you do if there wasn't any accessible facilities or they weren't big enough to accommodate you

I specifically chose a buggy that was the width required by law for wheelchair access.
This meant I could fit anywhere a wheelchair could.

Some places I just didn't go because they were too narrow and difficult. One or twice I left somewhere early.

But usually there was an accessible toilet
And some way to it.
My experience in rl is that people were friendly and helpful.

So whats stopping any of you from making it clear to a business that you'd prefer if accessible-for-the-disabled facilities were NOT shared spaces with parents-with-large-prams/lots-of-children.

On the 'no one should have to go to the toilet with the door open'..

I've lost track of how many times I have had to do just that, because the business in question has fufilled their requirement to provide an accessible toilet by slapping a wheelchair logo sticker on the door of a lav, and putting some hand rails in it, and it meets no other standards AT ALL and thus my chair doesn't actually fit in it.

There was one like that at bloody center parcs, and the reason in that case was the baby change unit!

So my choices are to find another, usually theres no time to do that.
Leave my chair outside door shut, can't see 13K worth of chair that cannot be locked?
Leave the door open so i can see my chair but people can also see me?

In some places i have HAD to leave the door open as I can't walk far enough to park the chair where I would have room to close the door (outward opening door).

But .. thats ok?

Yes I report to these businesses that their toilets do not meet the required standards. It falls on deaf ears. I point out they are breaking the law. It still falls on deaf ears, there is no logical place to report these illegal facilities or failure to provide.... so nothing changes.

@Winemewhynot

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Decency?! Have you read your post?

Obviously when you struggle to debate, you revert to name calling.

Did I upset you? By pointing out that it was all one sided?

@WiddlinDiddlin

No, none of that is OK, at all. No one should have to feel that their only options are either to use the toilet without privacy or leave an expensive possession or their baby out of view and unattended. Businesses should resolve these issues for both disabled people and parents with babies in prams.

@Justrealised

How did I name call you?

You refused to accept that a mother and baby may occasionally need to use the accessible facilities! You’re as bad as the OP, in fact are you her?!

Well I would get strange looks from you then because I have to use the disability toilet with my big strapping 27 year old son 🤷‍♀️
He looks totally normal and you would never guess he was severely disabled so I'm interested in who you think should be using YOUR toilet 👍🏻

@WiddlinDiddlin

Of course it’s not ok that you had to do that. I’m so sorry that happened. But if you feel like that leaving an expensive wheelchair outside, you can clearly see what a ridiculous suggestion it is to leave a baby outside.

Awful that they have not provided the proper facility at this center parks - but it’s not because of the baby change table, it’s because of the lazy business. When I said mums shouldn’t have to pee in public or leave their babies outside, I of course was not suggesting that disabled people SHOULD have to do so! Nobody should be exposed while using the toilet, it’s a ridiculous and horrible idea.

[quote Winemewhynot]@Justrealised

How did I name call you?

You refused to accept that a mother and baby may occasionally need to use the accessible facilities! You’re as bad as the OP, in fact are you her?![/quote]
You're post was bad enough to be removed, I'm not going to repeat it.

What I've actually written is that my issue is with the reliance on accessible facilities some people have who don't need them for the use they were intended. Contributing to making the situation worse for the disabled in that it reduces the affect of the reasonable adjustment made for them.

You talked about give and take and I pointed out that the provision was being taken from the disabled.

You got a tad upset.

No one is going to deny someone use of the bathroom if it's available they're desperate especially staff who would need to clean up the mess and deal with the fall out complaint.

Pretending that expanding the group of people who the accessible toilets are designed for doesn't impact on disabled people is a fallacy. The bigger the group using them the less impact the provision has for those intended.

@WiddlinDiddlin

So whats stopping any of you from making it clear to a business that you'd prefer if accessible-for-the-disabled facilities were NOT shared spaces with parents-with-large-prams/lots-of-children.

On the 'no one should have to go to the toilet with the door open'..

I've lost track of how many times I have had to do just that, because the business in question has fufilled their requirement to provide an accessible toilet by slapping a wheelchair logo sticker on the door of a lav, and putting some hand rails in it, and it meets no other standards AT ALL and thus my chair doesn't actually fit in it.

There was one like that at bloody center parcs, and the reason in that case was the baby change unit!

So my choices are to find another, usually theres no time to do that.
Leave my chair outside door shut, can't see 13K worth of chair that cannot be locked?
Leave the door open so i can see my chair but people can also see me?

In some places i have HAD to leave the door open as I can't walk far enough to park the chair where I would have room to close the door (outward opening door).

But .. thats ok?

Yes I report to these businesses that their toilets do not meet the required standards. It falls on deaf ears. I point out they are breaking the law. It still falls on deaf ears, there is no logical place to report these illegal facilities or failure to provide.... so nothing changes.

We reported a well know organisation to the equality and human rights commission. They helped and the issue with was resolved with a change to their offering. They are well worth a phone call with large organisations as they have the funds to make the adjustments and struggle to argue otherwise.

@justrealised I’m not upset at all and don’t why you would think that

I called you ignorant and stand by that and you have just demonstrated that again

the reliance on accessible facilities some people have who don't need them

The mother DID need them, she need to toilet and couldn’t fit her pram in the regular toilets. Would you rather she pissed herself or left her child outside?

I can’t believe you think you’re in the right 😂

@Worrysaboutalot I've not read all the comments since I commented earlier so unsure if you already know but the media have picked up your post and it is in the Manchester evening News online.

@Worrysaboutalot

Can't think why on Earth I would think that either especially given your retort

I know you're struggling to understand so I'll try again but only this one last time...

That comment was not about any one particular person, it was about posters on this thread openly admitting that they rely on accessible facilities when they are out. Facilities which are not intended for for them rather than try to take responsibility for their own situation which has an impact on the discrete group of people it's intended for.

I haven't said anyone should wet themselves. I'm actually saying that if these people did think about their actions maybe some disabled people wouldn't be in that position (the people who the facilities are put in for).

At the train station today, with my 4 month old baby in a pram and 4 year old. Heading to the (rather small, could hardly squeeze my pram through, pram isn't massive) toilets. Staff member approached me and said he would unlock the accessible toilet for us. There does need to be more accessible/disabled toilets I agree.

@Justrealised ah so you are speaking of general evils not specifics eg the specific issue the OP raised, you know the whole purpose of this thread…

So if you agree that no one should wet themselves then you agree that the OP was wrong to try and refuse the mum and baby entry to the accessible toilet yes? Have you just realised that?

@Winemewhynot

Did it take you all that time to think of that? Maybe you've had too much wine?

The OP didn't try to refuse the mum entry, she pointed out that there was no baby change facilities in there and was taken back by her response and her rattling the handle of the door.

You refer to points that haven't been made in order to dignify your response.

If the thread was only going to discuss the OP situation and nothing else it would just be a post of two polar views with no understanding on both sides, and miss the point of social media. The inability to think about or address other factors that impact a situation isn't going help the debate. It does show how closed to real debate you are.