Employer asked staff not to work from abroad

[Cosmos123]

A memo came out with new wfh strategy.
Basically they have informed staff that the hybrid model will be used where staff do not need to meet with clients.
Also staff can be requested to return at short notice to the office.
Not sure that is great news for those who have relocated hundreds of miles away.
Also a brief note at the end that working permanently from abroad will not be allowed due to tax implications or summat.

Wonder who even moved abroad during the pandemic?
Anyways seems that Wfh remotely forever for those who wanted it won't be happening.

@icedcoffees

You make it sound like WFH will create reasons for people not to be at work, it's completely ridiculous argument

Do you really think people won't do that?

people always try to take the piss, sickies or other. It's easy to get rid of those who don't know how to work.

WFH is completely irrelevant.

@alltheemptyfields

A PP mentioned that they just "declare they're working from home" - but how does that work if you have a business where there needs to be a certain number of people present to deal with face-to-face customers and everyone decides they have to WFH on the same day?

no one is DECLARING anything anymore than they DECLARE they are having a day off.

You are creating problems where there aren't any, and you assume that all professional employees are useless children who need to be told what to do and can't cope with a simple calendar.

No, that is, word-for-word, what a PP said lol.

@Hekatestorch said it at 12:52:37 - People just declare they are wfh those days.

She didn't say "they book days as WFH in advance with approval of a manager".

The point is that people would BOOK A DAY OFF for those things anyway if they wanted to attend, now they can work around them.

How do you 'work around' every employee's Amazon deliveries, 'school things' and weekend breaks though? How can team work function if everyone simply gets to 'declare' that they'll be WFH because Royal Mail will be calling that day or will have to miss an important meeting - virtual or not - because of a 'school thing'?

Flexibility is great, but being able to 'declare' your own schedule to fit your personal preferences, without prior approval, sounds chaotic.

I can see the people on this thread who will be part of the reason wfh will get cancelled 🙄

How do you get aeound employee's amazon deliveries? You hire people who aren't idiots

I’m most worried about the implications this will have on women with children who insist one flexibility to the point of disrupting business function. I cannot see many men declaring they will wfh because of a school thing and worry this will discourage hiring of women of child bearing age even more,

Also only on Mumsnet does everybody do a highly specialised role that could never be offshored.

This thread has been an eye opener. Some people really don’t get the implications of working abroad on a U.K. contract, do they?

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I can see the people on this thread who will be part of the reason wfh will get cancelled 🙄

How do you get aeound employee's amazon deliveries? You hire people who aren't idiots

Quite.

Miraculously, it actually works!

We had a lot of people who were originally from EU countries and moved back during the pandemic as they couldn't do their usual short trips back to see family. Quite a few have now left as they're only allowed to work from another country for six months of the year for tax reasons. It's still too uncertain to guarantee that travel will be open in the next year or so, and they don't want to take the risk of getting stuck in either place again.

It's a huge loss for our company.

@Mummyoflittledragon

This thread has been an eye opener. Some people really don’t get the implications of working abroad on a U.K. contract, do they?

Which is surprising because someone who is in a position to just move abroad like this should have good enough research skills to check out few websites, shouldn't they?

@cinammonbuns

Also only on Mumsnet does everybody do a highly specialised role that could never be offshored.

only on MN are people suddenly waking up to the concept of competition and imagined they had a cushy safe little role on their little island in a global economy.

Amazing.

Schrodinger
I totally agree. Even when we were in the EU this wasn’t possible.

Makes total sense to me. Employers Specifying in case anyone was in doubt. Wfh in covid was a temporary measure, And there is no guarantee that it will continue long-term. It might for many, but there are no guarantees. if you have moved without considering this it would be very foolish.

• How do you 'work around' every employee's Amazon deliveries, 'school things' and weekend breaks though? How can team work function if everyone simply gets to 'declare' that they'll be WFH because Royal Mail will be calling that day or will have to miss an important meeting - virtual or not - because of a 'school thing'?

Flexibility is great, but being able to 'declare' your own schedule to fit your personal preferences, without prior approval, sounds chaotic.*

I agree, that sounds completely bonkers. I live online shopping as much as the next person but I can’t imagine ever being so entitled I’d tell work to stick it because I’ve got an Amazon Prime delivery coming between 9am and 6pm .

Unfortunately when you give some people an inch, they take a mile. And I can see as a result the whole WFH thing gets shafted because it’ll become far too awkward every shift with x not coming in, y confused about whether they were WFH or not that day and any other endless combination. People need to understand that flexible working does not mean when the mood takes you to work. It’s pre-agreed (in advance) shifts that work for other members of the team and the business as well as yourself. Some will fail to understand this, though.

People need to understand that flexible working does not mean when the mood takes you to work. It’s pre-agreed (in advance) shifts that work for other members of the team and the business as well as yourself. Some will fail to understand this, though.

Amen to that

Some people have always failed to understand that Fridays and/or Mondays were not "sickies day", or that you are paid to do a job, not jumping out of your seat - after doing bugger all in the day - a 6:01pm.

WFH will not magically cure them. You can get rid of them just as you could before.

People need to understand that flexible working does not mean when the mood takes you to work. It’s pre-agreed (in advance) shifts that work for other members of the team and the business as well as yourself.

or, more realistically when you work with actual grown-up professional people, it's people looking at their calendar and organising their flexible hours around mandatory or essential appointments. It really is not that hard.

Only on MN is that even a question.

Don't people genuinely know how to organise their workload? Do you need to ask your manager if it's ok to go for a run at lunch time , because you can, (in the office or at home), or do you need a gold star because you had meetings back-to-back from 10 to 4pm and you didn't buy a sandwich?

or, more realistically when you work with actual grown-up professional people, it's people looking at their calendar and organising their flexible hours around mandatory or essential appointments. It really is not that hard.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that, and it's always been the case for good employers, WFH or not.

But the posts to which I and others have been responding are about employees getting to unilaterally 'declare' their schedule to fit around their Amazon deliveries and unspecified 'school things'. Which is taking the piss, big time.

I'm applying for jobs at the moment, and although I'm looking for remote/hybrid as a priority, my overwhelming preference is for any company that knows exactly how they plan to proceed with this now. I'd rather work full time in the office than be jerked around.

@thecatsthecats

I'm applying for jobs at the moment, and although I'm looking for remote/hybrid as a priority, my overwhelming preference is for any company that knows exactly how they plan to proceed with this now. I'd rather work full time in the office than be jerked around.

That is very common issue now. If companies aren't sure, it's costing them good candidates who know they have enough value not to want to be messed about.

Oh and let's not forget the ones advertising remote working and then at or after interview saying it's actually just temporary....🤦

@alltheemptyfields

Not all people in the workplace are like this, though. I’ve worked with enough of them who could barely summon enough energy to even pretend to be busy for a shift. Those who are utterly shit at their job but pretend to be stupid on purpose so people stop trying to teach them how to do the simplest of tasks because they don’t want to so some other poor sod has to do their jobs and their own while lazy Paul roams around doing things wrong, doing them slowly and then acts like they’ve had such a tough day. Also worked with plenty of people who are only in jobs due to friendships/other relationships with the “higher ups”. Constant fuck ups, constant laziness and spending most of the day dossing around outside with a feg rather than actually doing what they’re paid to do.

It’s unsurprising that these sort of people continue to play the system. They’re also the ones who go home early pretending to be sick (then go out with friends), show in late with not as much of an apology and refuse to help others out like they’ve been helped for the entire work life.

Yes, in an ideal world they’d all be sacked but it’s actually quite difficult getting rid of people nowadays, especially if they’re no longer in a probation period.

So, to answer your question- plenty of us are more than capable of doing what you’ve suggested. Unfortunately the workplace is full of people who couldn’t give a fuck how their selfishness impacts others and so why would they care about important meetings and the like? They only care for themselves. Without any rules they’d do less than they do right now.

Do you need to ask your manager if it's ok to go for a run at lunch time

In some places, yes, you do need permission to leave the workplace on your breaks due to staffing numbers.

While ACAS states that you're generally allowed to leave the premises on your break, there are exceptions for various reasons.

Not everyone works in jobs where they can disappear on their lunch break for an hour to go running.

@alltheemptyfields

People need to understand that flexible working does not mean when the mood takes you to work. It’s pre-agreed (in advance) shifts that work for other members of the team and the business as well as yourself.

or, more realistically when you work with actual grown-up professional people, it's people looking at their calendar and organising their flexible hours around mandatory or essential appointments. It really is not that hard.

Only on MN is that even a question.

Don't people genuinely know how to organise their workload? Do you need to ask your manager if it's ok to go for a run at lunch time , because you can, (in the office or at home), or do you need a gold star because you had meetings back-to-back from 10 to 4pm and you didn't buy a sandwich?

@alltheemptyfields

This, in spades. It is how I and the people I work with have done things for years and it works extremely well for us and for our employer.

But the posts to which I and others have been responding are about employees getting to unilaterally 'declare' their schedule to fit around their Amazon deliveries and unspecified 'school things'. Which is taking the piss, big time.

you misunderstood I think

Organising your own schedule around private commitments has always been a thing, and affects no one.