Employer asked staff not to work from abroad

[Cosmos123]

A memo came out with new wfh strategy.
Basically they have informed staff that the hybrid model will be used where staff do not need to meet with clients.
Also staff can be requested to return at short notice to the office.
Not sure that is great news for those who have relocated hundreds of miles away.
Also a brief note at the end that working permanently from abroad will not be allowed due to tax implications or summat.

Wonder who even moved abroad during the pandemic?
Anyways seems that Wfh remotely forever for those who wanted it won't be happening.

[quote BrightYellowDaffodil]@IcedPurple Why? Flexible working means I can start early/finish early or vice versa. Or take a chunk out of the middle of the day and finish work off in the evening. Or can stop work for 10 minutes for a delivery and carry on working around it, rather than having to take off the entire day. Our managers have made it clear that they don’t mind when work gets done, as long as it does. And it clearly does because it would be obvious after 18 months if it wasn’t.

Good employers trust their staff and allow a degree of autonomy and flexibility.[/quote]
Well yes. But if say, a meething - whether in person or virtual - is scheduled for 4 on Tuesday, then the rest of the staff shouldn't have to work around someone's 'school thing'. And if your employer needs you to be in the office on Wednesday, then you shouldn't deman to WFH just because you're expecting your new shoes to be delivered that day.

There's flexibility, and then there is taking the piss.

Bit if they can, why not? Especially the school thing. Where possible if employers could accommodate people's lives more, not completely, but understand they have kids and lives outside work. Then give them a better balance, why not?

Because businesses are about making money, not accommodating school plays, Amazon deliveries and letting the builders in.

I mean, of course it would be nice if they could do those things, but they're under no obligation to and I do think some people have unrealistic expectations about those things.

@Hekatestorch

I think if people expect the type of 'flexibility' that means employers have to accommodate everyone's Amazon deliveries, weekend breaks in Amsterdam, and little Johnny's 'school thing', they're going to be disappointed.

Bit if they can, why not? Especially the school thing. Where possible if employers could accommodate people's lives more, not completely, but understand they have kids and lives outside work. Then give them a better balance, why not?

You'd wonder how people ever survived a working day.

Good luck to a company having to organise meetings and other work needs around 50 people's Amazon deliveries, holiday plans and 'school things'.

Good luck to a company having to organise meetings and other work needs around 50 people's Amazon deliveries, holiday plans and 'school things'.

Exactly. It's all very well saying that companies should be flexible but accommodating the needs of everyone who wants to WFH on different days and at different times for different reasons is almost impossible.

I don't know why people fail to see the link between companies allowing totally flexible re: country and taking the risk on corporation tax etc., and outsourcing those jobs to cheaper labour pools abroad.

Agreed….

Yes, Some companies in the UK have tried this and found it didn’t work (I see usual reasons have been proffered such as accents, familiarity with the culture) but it sure as heck has been found to work for many non-contact roles in some very big companies and sometimes whole departments have been outsourced overseas in the search of employees with specific skills who will work for less than UK rates.

@icedcoffees

Bit if they can, why not? Especially the school thing. Where possible if employers could accommodate people's lives more, not completely, but understand they have kids and lives outside work. Then give them a better balance, why not?

Because businesses are about making money, not accommodating school plays, Amazon deliveries and letting the builders in.

I mean, of course it would be nice if they could do those things, but they're under no obligation to and I do think some people have unrealistic expectations about those things.

I don't anyone is saying there is an obligation. As I said, if they can why not?

@LIZS

Many companies have IT helpdesks based somewhere different to their offices or outsourced. Many IT issues can be resolved remotely or equipment couriered.

I work for a London uni that has outsourced most of IT to Cornwall. They're now thinking of doing the same with HR.

If it saves money while bringing good jobs to a region that needs them, I say why not.

Good luck to a company having to organise meetings and other work needs around 50 people's Amazon deliveries, holiday plans and 'school things'.

This is quite lazy thinking. No one would be organising 50 people's amazon delivery and school things. People just declare they are wfh those days. Or in a lot of jobs, just mention they will be off line while at school. Because lots of us have jobs, where we have done this for years. In alot of jobs its possible.

IF and employer can offer flexible working, the main point being if

This is quite lazy thinking. No one would be organising 50 people's amazon delivery and school things. People just declare they are wfh those days.

And that might work in your industry, but in many others it won't, which is why people are saying some people have unrealistic expectations.

What if everyone in one department "declares they're WFH" when the set-up requires a certain number of people to be in the office to deal with clients who come in to the business place, for example?

Good luck to a company having to organise meetings and other work needs around 50 people's Amazon deliveries, holiday plans and 'school things'.

it's still work, no one gives a damn about your amazon deliveries. Holiday are given in the same amount whether you are in the office or not, and "school thing" exist in similar way too.

What SOME of you forget is that WFH actually means WORKING. With more flexibility. It doesn't mean putting the weekly catchup to a vote to see when it's most convenient

What if everyone in one department "declares they're WFH" when the set-up requires a certain number of people to be in the office to deal with clients who come in to the business place, for example?

that's why you have a manager, how do people manage so far?

Even in the office you still deal with absence, annual leave, meetings, client meetings...

If you are so inefficient and so lost with problems that don't even exist, I can understand why it's daunting not to have someone holding people's hand throughout the day.

I do wonder if all these people saying WFH or hybrid can't work have actually been in a job that does just that?

I have WFH for a couple of days a week for years. Flexibility does sometimes mean discussing who is available and when for either a remote or f2f meeting. I like that companies treat you like an adult as to how you organise your time as long as you get the job done.

Where jobs can be done in a hybrid model or WFH then why make everyone go into the office 5 days a week.

Of course there is a limit to acomodating things like Amazon delivers (bit wtf exsmple, but ok). Flwxibility goea both ways. But being inflexible just for the sake of it will just not go down well. Many teams proved they are more efficient out of office. Many teams proved they are more efficient in the office. Many teams found hibrid working. Flexibility instead of rigid "in the office at all times" ot "wfh at all times" is the best way to go.

@Hekatestorch

Good luck to a company having to organise meetings and other work needs around 50 people's Amazon deliveries, holiday plans and 'school things'.

This is quite lazy thinking. No one would be organising 50 people's amazon delivery and school things. People just declare they are wfh those days. Or in a lot of jobs, just mention they will be off line while at school. Because lots of us have jobs, where we have done this for years. In alot of jobs its possible.

IF and employer can offer flexible working, the main point being if

So if a meeting with collegeagues or clients in the office is scheduled for Tuesday, Simon can simply 'declare' he won't be there because those headphones he bought in a last minute Lightning Deal are going to be delivered that day? Or Sarah (and it will nearly always be a woman, which has implications of its own) can simply 'mention' that she won't be present because of that 'school thing'? Multiplied times 50, or however many employees, with Amazon deliveries, 'school things' and weekend breaks of their own to 'accommodate'?

Sounds like a recipe for chaos to me.

My employer has said the same, WFH from abroad not allowed, not just because of tax but other reasons too (can’t remember exactly what).
I think in our case it’s partly because we have workers who are from other countries, who went back to their “home” country during the pandemic. The employer is saying they can’t work remotely from the other country, they have to be resident in the UK as they were before.

So if a meeting with collegeagues or clients in the office is scheduled for Tuesday, Simon can simply 'declare' he won't be there because those headphones he bought in a last minute Lightning Deal are going to be delivered that day? Or Sarah (and it will nearly always be a woman, which has implications of its own) can simply 'mention' that she won't be present because of that 'school thing'? Multiplied times 50, or however many employees, with Amazon deliveries, 'school things' and weekend breaks of their own to 'accommodate'?

Sorry but company having these issues needs to fire the management team

You can't simply declare anything. It's worked out amongst the team who and when is in the the office so it works. If an employee eclares they are not in because amazon delivery, their next delivery would be p45

As for the original post then yeah totally get why you can't just work from abroad dues to lots of reasons including tax.

@alltheemptyfields

What if everyone in one department "declares they're WFH" when the set-up requires a certain number of people to be in the office to deal with clients who come in to the business place, for example?

that's why you have a manager, how do people manage so far?

Even in the office you still deal with absence, annual leave, meetings, client meetings...

If you are so inefficient and so lost with problems that don't even exist, I can understand why it's daunting not to have someone holding people's hand throughout the day.

that's why you have a manager, how do people manage so far?

By making people book annual leave and time off in advance - not allowing them to "declare they're WFH" with no need for approval.

Even in the office you still deal with absence, annual leave, meetings, client meetings...

Of course, but annual leave is planned in advance, and you're very, very rarely going to be in a position where your entire team calls in sick at the last minute. So generally, you can plan meetings around annual leave.

If you are so inefficient and so lost with problems that don't even exist, I can understand why it's daunting not to have someone holding people's hand throughout the day.

It's nothing to do with "holding people's hands". A PP mentioned that they just "declare they're working from home" - but how does that work if you have a business where there needs to be a certain number of people present to deal with face-to-face customers and everyone decides they have to WFH on the same day?

You can't simply declare anything. It's worked out amongst the team who and when is in the the office so it works. If an employee eclares they are not in because amazon delivery, their next delivery would be p45

But a PP has said that that IS how things work in their business - that's what posters are responding to.

So if a meeting with collegeagues or clients in the office is scheduled for Tuesday, Simon can simply 'declare' he won't be there because those headphones he bought in a last minute Lightning Deal are going to be delivered that day? Or Sarah (and it will nearly always be a woman, which has implications of its own) can simply 'mention' that she won't be present because of that 'school thing'? Multiplied times 50, or however many employees, with Amazon deliveries, 'school things' and weekend breaks of their own to 'accommodate'?]

what does this have anything to do with WFH?

The point is that people would BOOK A DAY OFF for those things anyway if they wanted to attend, now they can work around them.

Have you never been in a company before? Never managed a team by the sound of it?

You make it sound like WFH will create reasons for people not to be at work, it's completely ridiculous argument 😂

A PP mentioned that they just "declare they're working from home" - but how does that work if you have a business where there needs to be a certain number of people present to deal with face-to-face customers and everyone decides they have to WFH on the same day?

no one is DECLARING anything anymore than they DECLARE they are having a day off.

You are creating problems where there aren't any, and you assume that all professional employees are useless children who need to be told what to do and can't cope with a simple calendar.

According to DH, plenty moved abroad in his office with the expectation that if the company doesn't offer full remote conditions, they'll just find another job that does. But then he works in IT, and there is a major shortage of good people.

You make it sound like WFH will create reasons for people not to be at work, it's completely ridiculous argument

Do you really think people won't do that?

@icedcoffees

You can't simply declare anything. It's worked out amongst the team who and when is in the the office so it works. If an employee eclares they are not in because amazon delivery, their next delivery would be p45

But a PP has said that that IS how things work in their business - that's what posters are responding to.

Well then it works for their company🤷🏻 Not that difficult to imagine. I shall change "you don't just declare" to "you don't USUALLY just declare" that ahould have been there really. My bad.

Also "declare" doesn't mean it's done day before. We have plan foe weeks ahead when people say when they want to wfh and then we see where meetings can be put in or whether they need to be in the office.

I still can't get over the fact someone thinks flexibility means companies having to work out meetings aeound amon deliveries, tho.

@TheWayTheLightFalls

I read today that Premier Inns, Novotels etc in central London are reporting a lot of interest for mid-week one/two night stays from businesspeople who now simply live too far away to commute conveniently. Shock, horror.

The working abroad thing... yes, it's nonsensical and people employed on British contracts for British companies who unilaterally decide to fuck off to Italy/Bali/wherever don't get any sympathy from me. But at the same time I can imagine individuals working for small organisations and doing this discreetly getting away with it for ages and ages. If you keep a home (address) in the UK and don't open an Italian bank account, register with an Italian GP etc, what are the chances of the Italian tax authorities cottoning on?

They may come unstuck on healthcare as annual travel policies limit the length of stays outside the UK and are intended for leisure trips only, not work. Now we are out of the EU, covering a significant illness or hospital stay out of pocket would bankrupt many people.