Employer asked staff not to work from abroad

[Cosmos123]

A memo came out with new wfh strategy.
Basically they have informed staff that the hybrid model will be used where staff do not need to meet with clients.
Also staff can be requested to return at short notice to the office.
Not sure that is great news for those who have relocated hundreds of miles away.
Also a brief note at the end that working permanently from abroad will not be allowed due to tax implications or summat.

Wonder who even moved abroad during the pandemic?
Anyways seems that Wfh remotely forever for those who wanted it won't be happening.

Wasn't one of the Caribbean islands offering some sort of wfh visa with no dual tax requirements to encourage people to come over for a year whilst wfh in their UK jobs? Sounded lovely if I didn't have kids! There are usually tax implications though. We are being pretty flexible with people working from abroad but the company has tax experts for a fair few jurisdictions so we just get it approved in advance. I think just doing it without checking with your company shows a lack of judgment.

I wouldn't be at all surprised by people continuing to want to relocate to more rural areas if/ when hybrid working becomes established and there's a clear directive from the employer, eg 2 days in office/ 3 days wfh. It would make total sense for many families to live in a more attractive less expensive location when they're not having to commute 5 days a week. I can see this trend becoming more and more popular. However, people who jumped the gun and moved hundreds of miles without knowing what their employer's expectations are, have been really stupid.

There are also security concerns, different laws around confidentiality etc. Some. Companies don't allow their IT eg phones to be taken out of the country in normal times.

I think it's sensible.

Anyone who moved house hundreds of miles because of a company/office response to a pandemic was a bit foolish really.

Contracts I have had for professional roles have always been explicit when it comes to working abroad; not allowed.

I don't know anyone who thinks they are 'too good' for working in the office. I do know alot of people who have realised their own work and that of their employees is either exactly the same or better at home.

Seems like a reasonable request to me.

Environmentally wfh is better though, less journeys =less pollution.

It is also good for local communities as more people working locally means more people using local businesses etc.

@MissyB1

One of our friends owns a second home in Italy and since the pandemic has been wfh there for about half the year. I wonder if that affects his tax or his employer’s.

It most likely will have caused him to become Italian tax resident.

Also to add, our company management were v candid I'm how they were approaching return to work and new ways of working. Exact phrases are "no point in travelling in to an office to work on a laptop and send emails which can be done from home", but looking to the hybrid model where possible as working in the office is good for collaboration etc, so making the most of times when we are in the office.

They are reducing building capacity to 40%, so a saving from their perspective.

I know people who have moved miles away in the same country, but I don’t know anyone who has actually moved abroad. That would seem like too much of a risk to me.

My job is permanently remote (I have worked from home for the last 3/ 4 years - my team is located all over the UK). However, a lot of people I know have no idea what their jobs will look like in the future. Most are hoping for a hybrid set up but whether that will ever happen, who knows.

@maddening

Environmentally wfh is better though, less journeys =less pollution.

It is also good for local communities as more people working locally means more people using local businesses etc.

Environmentally its better but its not better for sharing knowledge, even bouncing ideas of other colleagues, training young people or developing a culture. WFH is also incredibly isolating for people, especially those who live alone. I'll also throw in domestic abuse victims probably benefit greatly from time in a work environment.

Ups and downs of both.

Also think about it, why would a company have to pay a London salary to someone working remote for example? They could pay less for someone living outside London. Same goes for any big city.

Not forgetting companies will no doubt also be (re)considering London weighting for permanent wfh models.

I used to work 40m outside London, and even 25 years ago the London weighting was 12%, on a fairly basic job role. Imagine relocation hundreds of miles away and using that for your mortgage affordability...

We have been wfh in a hybrid model since 2010.

The 2 days in the office if you live more than 1.5hr commute each way takes it toll still as.many have found in the organisation.

So those who have moved further a field may not realise how exhausting that commute for 2 days a week can be. The cost also.

@whyarentiskinnyet

Also think about it, why would a company have to pay a London salary to someone working remote for example? They could pay less for someone living outside London. Same goes for any big city.

Exactly, if the job can be done by anyone anywhere, companies might restructure, bump the big and expensive London people and employ cheaper WFH staff.

@Cosmos123

A memo came out with new wfh strategy. Basically they have informed staff that the hybrid model will be used where staff do not need to meet with clients. Also staff can be requested to return at short notice to the office. Not sure that is great news for those who have relocated hundreds of miles away. Also a brief note at the end that working permanently from abroad will not be allowed due to tax implications or summat.

Wonder who even moved abroad during the pandemic?
Anyways seems that Wfh remotely forever for those who wanted it won't be happening.

What pushed people to move abroad? The same thing that pushed people to move 3 hours away within the U.K.

And there are many many of them, esp people working in london….

@whyarentiskinnyet

Also think about it, why would a company have to pay a London salary to someone working remote for example? They could pay less for someone living outside London. Same goes for any big city.

Yep. I’ve been thinking that too.

When you see the difference in wages for engineers between london and the NE, you wonder when companies are going to start applying NE wages to everyone.

Lots of people at my work have spent the summer in their home country (Greece, France) working from their parents. They’re not allowed to do it permanently due to tax but the company allows up to 8 weeks of remote out of UK working. I am insanely jealous of my colleague working from her parents’ villa in the south of France.

The tax reasons are true. The applicable taxation and employment laws are determined by the location of the employee not the employer, so if random employees started working in other countries, there would be lots of new sets of laws to adhere to and payroll systems to operate.

In addition, people often seem to think they can work anywhere if they are working remotely for their home country employer. However unless they have a visa / passport for the country they are residing in, this is probably not legal from the employees perspective either.

@WillYouDoTheFandango would you be as jealous if it was a small mining village in the NE though?

They are just working and staying with family after all.

I know 2 people personally.
1 is smart and kept it at 3 months only.
1 has been in another country for over a year and doesn't believe there will be tax residency issues...

I can apready imagind ghe sad DM faces on near
future 🙄

Lockdownbear - totally agree, which is why I am so pleased that our company are going to hybrid working. (But my commute was only ever 20 mins and I have not moved or worked abroad so no skin in that argument).

Additionally, my employer has key locations across the country, at my location most of my team are at another location, so it has been better for cross location working as we have all been on webex for meetings, pre lockdown sometimes we were dialed in to a meeting in a room and that was never as good as it was harder to engage as a disembodied voice in a room, so this has really been good for me to get to know people from all locations much better.

It’s time to get prepared to get back to work, in the office, and back to normal.

Why? Employers and employees alike have seen the benefits of WFH (better work/life balance, greater flexibility, less office space needed, happier employees, environmental impact reduction etc) even if it shifts to a hybrid model which benefits team cohesion and provides support for new members of staff.

There will be some employers who can offer WFH who choose not to, and some who move to it 100%. The majority who can offer WFH will probably go for the hybrid. You’re going to be disappointed if you think everything will snap back to how it was.

Are you someone who doesn’t get to WFH so think no-one else should either, or are you one of those people who wants everyone forced into the office to keep you company?

I know people who have made some frankly insane property choices based on wfh which turned out to be temporary (we're being asked to return for 2-3 days a week). One traded their London flat for an absolutely gorgeous property in the wilds of Scotland, but is now facing a 10 hour commute. And the other sold up and moved to Vancouver, and was absolutely baffled when our employer a, wouldn't let him shift his working hours to local time, and b, said this broke the terms of his contract. Honestly, I have sympathy for people who just chose a slightly longer commute to get some more outdoor space, but there's definitely a limit!

If you work from abroad for more than 6 months then there are tax implications so that is fair enough.