To ask why you haven't/won't have the covid vaccine?

[shuz1980]

Is it because your an anti vaxxer? Concerned about long term side effects?

@Dayofpeace

Brilliantly and beautifully put. I wish I were as articulate as yourself. You’ve covered everything I would have wanted to say. 👏🏻

There are proportionally FAR more unvaccinated people in hospital:



Sod it; I can never make it load. It's a sum from a research team (medical) showing that if eg 90% people are vaccinated and 600 are admitted to hospital, and 160 of the 10% of unvaccinated people are also admitted, then the 160 is a far higher proportion of the unvaccinated than 600 is from the total of the vaccinated!

More or less this week covers this very clearly. It’s the base rate fallacy.

@OrganicAvocado

SofiaMichelle

And you’d ban people with natural immunity from already having had covid (of which there are many) from functioning in society too? On what basis?

On the basis that there's nothing stopping them being vaccinated after they recover and since we don't have any other way of knowing who has a level of immunity, as we can't test everyone for antibodies to certify their protection that way instead.

www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/anatomy-of-a-vaccine-breakthrough/619562/

@SofiaMichelle

From where have you sourced your “80%” statistic which you use to refute @FromEden?

It seems that neither PHE nor CDC would agree with you. Both say the evidence is shaping up that vaccinated people transmit virus in similar quantities to the unvaccinated. See the link.

www.reuters.com/world/uk/england-says-delta-infections-produce-similar-virus-levels-regardless-vaccine-2021-08-06/

Given this, what would be the rationale for the divisive behaviours that you favour?

twitter.com/sailorrooscout?s=21

This scientist is posting good informative information. Better to read what the experts are saying.

@Parker231

twitter.com/sailorrooscout?s=21

This scientist is posting good informative information. Better to read what the experts are saying.

Do you mean all expert opinions, Parker?

Or do you mean just the ones that you agree with?

I appreciate the amazing scientific who have developed a vaccine which has saved so many lives and continues to do so.

I’m a volunteer vaccinator and booked my own appointments as soon as they were available for my age group.

I was seriously considering not having my second jab, because I had an awful reaction to the first one. Really bad, worse than anyone else I know. However, I'm so glad I went and got the second jab - it wasn't as bad this time. I wasn't anti-vaxxer in the first place, but that experience did throw me. I've had all the vaccines for everything else - even got my fellow fever vaccine. So why not one more?

@Parker231

I appreciate the amazing scientific who have developed a vaccine which has saved so many lives and continues to do so. I’m a volunteer vaccinator and booked my own appointments as soon as they were available for my age group.

Those are not good reasons to shut your ears to emerging evidence that you don’t like, and keep plugging the words of just one individual.

People should listen to all evidence, avoid bias, and encourage open debate and research.

Patsy Palmer, Beverley Turner and Denise Welch being anti-vaxxers tells you all you need to know about the sort of company those opposed to the vaccine keep.

Personally I'll put my faith in healthcare professionals and those who have an education.

@Snoozer11

Patsy Palmer, Beverley Turner and Denise Welch being anti-vaxxers tells you all you need to know about the sort of company those opposed to the vaccine keep.

Personally I'll put my faith in healthcare professionals and those who have an education.

Lots of highly educated healthcare professionals are sounding caution and urging more research. Why would you not listen to them?
They include Covid front-line senior NHS doctors, researchers from prestigious universities, the inventor of mRNA vaccines, inventor of PCR tests, Nobel prize-winners, and more.

Do you really think they are all stupid or mad? Don’t you think it’s wise to consider all the evidence from those obviously qualified and relevant people when weighing the implications for global health and identifying suitable ways forward?

Too many responses on this thread advocate for censorship rather than duly consider even what sort of issues are being raised. It is a very dangerous and ignorant path.

I’ve read a huge amount of different material - am weary of it now. Am still incredibly positive about the benefits of the vaccine (I had AZ). I dread to think what would have happened to the numbers of deaths and cases without the vaccine rollout.

@Dayofpeace I think the problem is that a lot of speculation is often put forwards without evidence which has a huge impact on vaccine confidence. I think everyone agrees more research in beneficial and I don't think there should be censorship or that anyone should be afraid to put forwards to concerned but the way this is done needs to be responsible. Look at how Michael Yeadon questioned fertility and now there are huge swathes of people worried about the vaccine making them infertile even though there's no evidence or plausible biological mechanism for that. Some of those people will decline the vaccine, when it might have really benefited them

I'm not sure what the answer is but I think it's a real concern

For those of you who aren't having the vaccine, would you still attend hospital if you get seriously ill with COVID? Or do you not want to queue up at A&E?

@Dayofpeace I think what you're looking for is long-term study, to elucidate unusual effects in potentially a small minority of people. Some of the concerns you suggest would take 10+ years to show in an observable and measurable way.
Many of the concerns you have alluded to can be classed as baseless conjecture which experts in the field of vaccines have discounted due to already known features of the vaccines and study during initial trials and clinical administration.

Taking everything into account, it is appropriate to administer these vaccines during the immediate pandemic.

Caution, observation, and thorough investigation of adverse events is key - as with any new drug that has been through clinical trials, but generally yields further information on wider clinical use.

No clinical treatment is without some risk, and it's always the risk Vs benefit that has to be weighed up.

The exceedingly knowledgeable people behind This Week in Virology' try their best to make information accessible and there is a lot to look at, here:
www.microbe.tv/twiv/tag/coronavirus/

Also this is a good overview of vaccine type and design:
www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/8/848/htm

• to add to you wider reading

I've had the vaccine but many people are aware of the effects on women's periods, and if they're TTC or have existing fertility issues, they just can't take the risk of disrupting things any further. To the outside, it's just a few messed up cycles (for some people it's lasting quite a few months) but for them it's slashing their already slim chances even further.

Some people have had very poor experiences after the first dose and are scared of taking the second.
Some people have been consistently treated poorly and badly let down by the medical community and instinctively distrust what they say.
Some people just don't like being pressured.

People should listen to all evidence, avoid bias, and encourage open debate and research.

@Dayofpeace that is the science equivalent of " football is game of two halves. "

Yep, everyone especially governments should to do that ALL THE TIME. And right here and now is a situation so widespread and devastating that action of some sort has to be taken now.

Don't want the vaccine? Don't take it. But remember your privilege in a country where you have had access to it and a safety net ( that you would undoubtedly use) if you became ill.

YABU.

What has it got to do with you? Do you ask people who don't have the flu jab why and want more information? Everyone has a right to decide what goes into their body. I've personally had it, but I couldn't care less whether anyone else has or not. And honestly I only had it because I felt guilt tripped into it and wish I hadn't. I'm a young, fit, healthy 25 year old whos body would be able to build up its own immunity if I were to catch covid. I wish i'd left it to that personally.

So basically, focus on yourself and keep your nose out of other peoples business

*What has it got to do with you? Do you ask people who don't have the flu jab why and want more information? Everyone has a right to decide what goes into their body. I've personally had it, but I couldn't care less whether anyone else has or not. And honestly I only had it because I felt guilt tripped into it and wish I hadn't. I'm a young, fit, healthy 25 year old whos body would be able to build up its own immunity if I were to catch covid. I wish i'd left it to that personally.

So basically, focus on yourself and keep your nose out of other peoples business

@SarahTTCx*

Agree no one should have to say whether they've had the Vaccine not. On an individual level it's personal.

In an epidemic things change slightly because we live in an actual SOCIETY where one person affects another.

So not caring less is a MASSIVE privilege. My OH is massively immuno compromised for example. So lucky you but I do care.

a young, fit, healthy 25 year old whos body would be able to build up its own immunity if I were to catch covid. I genuinely hope that would be the case. Unfortunately it is not always.

The thing about an internet forum is that it is anonymous so if you're interested, crack on OP.

@savvy7

For those of you who aren't having the vaccine, would you still attend hospital if you get seriously ill with COVID? Or do you not want to queue up at A&E?

No.

Only in mumsnett you can't ask this question.

@Tevion28

Only in mumsnett you can't ask this question.

What question?