To ask DH to give up his career?

[Lonelylooloo]

Please don’t flame me I know I am probably being VU and will accept that if you tell me.

I have a big house, nice car, cleaners and no money worries, I know I’m very very lucky. I also have a DH we rarely see who works long hours in a draining job.
We have two small DC the youngest is just a few weeks old and DH has been on SPL, it’s been so lovely having him around and I don’t mean to sound ungrateful but I’ve realised how lonely and unhappy I am when DH is working.

He goes back tomorrow and Im upset. I want to simplify our lives. We could sell up and purchase a small property cash, reduce our monthly outgoings to less than 1/4 of the current and DH (or I) could work PT to survive comfortably. There’s huge demand for DH’s skills and I have a decent PT job. He could actually spend time with our toddler who adores him and not be miserable and exhausted all the time. I could not feel like a single parent! We are so lucky to have the option to live like this as so many don’t.

I told him how I feel but he doesn’t feel the same. He likes his job and wants this expensive lifestyle. He just kept repeating ‘it’s gonna be ok’ but it’s just me watching him work himself raw and me doing everything with the house/kids alone. This isn’t how I want to live. What’s the point in a big house when he’s never here to enjoy it?

I wanna spend time together with our beautiful kids whilst they’re little.
I want DH to be around to see them grow up and not have had a heart attack before 40!

I get it. So many people slog it out for a big house, nice car etc. forgetting about the important things-family, health. Your life sounds so miserable & there are other options. However your OP needs to be on board.

@Justlife45 If one spouse is the primary breadwinner while the other is the primary caregiver, the breadwinner's life doesn't change nearly as much as the caregiver's. It can't, because they still have to go to work every day and spend 8 hours or more doing exactly the same job as before. The bills still need to be paid, and now there are a lot more of them. Most people with SAH spouses don't reduce their hours after having children, not because they don't want to, but because they can't.

OP's proposed plan involves somehow reducing their living expenses to 1/4 of what they are currently. There are obviously going to be some huge negatives to that plan, for both themselves and their children, and her husband disagrees with her opinion that the pros outweigh the cons. Without more details, I don't see any reason to assume that she's right and he's wrong. Since it requires both of them to continue working part-time while doing all of the household work themselves instead of paying others to do it, I'm not convinced it would even give them significantly more time with the children.

Could your DH condense his hours and take a day off? My DH did this and works a 9 day fortnight. The day at home with our girls has been great for him and for the DC.

I do understand why you want to make these changes OP. I’ve had similar thoughts in the past. DH and I both work full time and it’s a slog. We are financially secure - not as comfortable as you describe but also have a nice home, 2 cars etc and in the past I have suggested selling up and buying an ex local authority property so that we have no mortgage and can go part time. I probably haven’t been very serious about it - or I probably was at the time but then the moment passed and life continued on.

But if your DH likes his job and likes his life then it’s not going to be possible - but your opinion matters in all of this so he shouldn’t just dismiss you.

@TedMullins

Did she "decide" to change her lifestyle though or was it implicitly assumed? What if she'd carried on as her DH has done, gone back to work as soon as physically possible after giving birth, and carried on as if nothing had changed? Would the DH have cut down his hours and done the parenting without any discussion, as has seemingly happened here? It's hardly a free decision is it, when women so easily fall into this role without men even giving it a moment's consideration. What if SHE was the surgeon and has now dropped to another, part-time medical role, because she implicitly considered her kids? Why isn't the same expected of men?

Sounds like they can afford a nanny, so that's probably what they'd have done. If DH had objected to it, she'd have been within her rights to tell him to stay home himself if he was opposed to their child being raised by a nanny. No one forced her to have a child, much less two, and there's no indication that anyone forced her to quit her job to raise them. She's an adult who chose to do all of those things despite being fortunate enough to have a plethora of other options. That's the same regardless of the type of career she chose to give up. If a man chose to do the same thing in the same circumstances, that would also be his own free choice.

I had a Big Job before kids and earned more than DH, then I went part time/became a SAHM and now he earns 85 times what I ever could". Why? Why does nobody look at women like that and say to her male partner "well, don't expect her to give up work and push a pram around, you know what she's like, you better prepare to be a SAHD!
Because these women give up these jobs by choice, because THEY want to be there for their kids. I know many mums who decided to do both, continue with their career and be a good mum and managed both very well.

I don't know any woman in real life who has given up a very good established well paid career because their husband wanted them to. It just doesn't happen.

In OP's case, there would be no issues if he agreed, but he doesn't. Do you think it would be right for a man to insist that his career wife should go part time despite loving her job and the income that comes with it because he was feeling lonely? I very much doubt it!

@TedMullins

Why does no one say this about career-driven, high-earning women though? You see it all the time on here "I had a Big Job before kids and earned more than DH, then I went part time/became a SAHM and now he earns 85 times what I ever could". Why? Why does nobody look at women like that and say to her male partner "well, don't expect her to give up work and push a pram around, you know what she's like, you better prepare to be a SAHD!"

I've said that exact thing plenty of times. But it doesn't matter, really, because no matter what anyone claims, a husband can't force his wife to quit her Big Job for the same reasons this OP can't force her husband to quit his. If he chooses to quit it because that will make OP happy, fine - he has every right to make that decision, and he's going to have to live with the consequences. Likewise, when a woman chooses to quit her Big Job to make her husband happy, that's her decision that she has every right to make, and she's going to have to live with the consequences. If she later regrets that decision, that doesn't make the whole thing someone else's fault.

@PurpleOkapi

No one forced her to have a child, much less two

That made me cringe internally whilst reading this. You keep trying to par everything off on the woman. Her parent ALSO choose this. This is why the op brings up feeling equal. It's clear even from the perspective of outsiders that this dynamic isnt equal. She didn't decide to impregnate herself both she and her husband sat down and decided to become parents. Together. So he should also pull his weight as a dad breadwinner or not. It's not like they will be slumming it if he cuts down his hours. OP said it is well in their means to cut down on expenses in return for quality family time, which should be priceless for parents.

The way I read this is that the dp wants to keep up this lavish expensive life even if it's at the expense of his children growing up to have less time with him. When they could live a comfortable life and sacrifice some expensive ways to be together more. Also just because they can afford a nanny doesnt mean they should. Maybe the op recognises what is more important is for her children to be raised with their parents around them instead of being chucked into full time care whilst both parents work like crazy when it's not necessary. Just a shame the dp doesnt think the same.

Spending time with the ones you love is way more important than material things like expensive cars and a luxury lifestyle

It's a fine line though. It's easy to say 'money can't buy happinness' but if you're a single parent with an average wage coming in, running yourself ragged with drop offs and pick ups and worrying about making the mortgage payment and paying for school, money sure as hell would make life a lot easier.

@Getawaywithit

Yes but the op said even if they did less hours they wouldnt be struggling. So effectively what they will be giving up on is nice cars, holidays, branded clothes ect. Not worrying about house payments and Bill's. She made it clear in her op they can afford to work less without putting themselves in a bad position

I thought spider's advice was good. Small steps, make sure annual leave is booked and taken. Reevaluate in a year.

Working hours are long in the UK and Covid hasn't helped as a lot of people have lost the natural boundary of the commute. So resisting the upward creep of hours is a good idea. That's what would help across the board - more dads with constraints such as reaching nursery/after school club by 6. More dadswho take on genuine responsibility for organising aspects of family life. It's being The Keeper of All Tickets, Arrangements and Resources that gets me down, more than the actual childcare. I thought a lot about being a mum. I should have given more thought to being a frigging quartermaster!!

OP, worth a conversation with DH in due course about timeliness. There are more and less expensive times to reduce working hours - I don't know what he does but shares, bonuses, partnerships, professional qualifications all have to be factored in. Plus if he works with people whose DC are privately educated, he may be thinking he's going to need £50k a year for that and once you're on that train it's hard to get off. Or maybe, like my BF's DH, he'll eventually admit he's no real interest in hands-on dadding...

Do you have career goals?

In summary, try to think about the next 10-15 years if you can, not the next 5.

You say your DH is your Best Friend.This is lovely and how I feel about my DH too.However I do have other friends! Its not healthy to rely on one person so much .I really think it would make such a difference to you to have some female friends with DC a similar age .I was/am a SAHM and lived for the coffee mornings when DC were small. Your DH is like many men ,they are work driven and wont be happy at home fo long .

The way I read this is that the dp wants to keep up this lavish expensive life even if it's at the expense of his children growing up to have less time with him. When they could live a comfortable life and sacrifice some expensive ways to be together more

Ironically, there is another active thread about just this and the OP (female) is being lambasted for not respecting her DH's right and need to work - and her expensive lifestyle is being thrown in her face...

@Justlife45

Yes, I have seen that. Still doesn't mean that the balance is right for the OP's husband. Having been through a no-money period in life, I would rather over-work now to avoid being in that place again. I know which is worse, that's for sure.

Ooops that is this thread

Op he can neve be an equal co parent when you only work part time ans him full time, that’s an unreasonable demand, if you’re working less so you can be home with the kids of course you will parent more.

And as much as it’s lovely that he’s your best friend, please make sure that doesn’t also mean only friend. Because that’s too much responsibility on one person and not fair on him.

It’s not ok to decide you want to be home to see th kids grow but you don’t quite like doing it alone so want him to quit and do it with you.

If being at home isn’t for you then get back into the work place, find something else to do. But you can’t force someone to live a life they don’t wish just so you can be happy.

I think it's reasonable enough to want that, but it's not what he wants. Presumably this is the man you married, he hasn't become career driven and money orientated since DC arrived?

Your post reminded me of this quote.

I have a similar situation to you OP, financially very secure (and very grateful for it), but a DH who works very very long hours, and three kids under 5. I did a similar job to him pre kids, and I think it’s harsh to say ‘you should have discussed this before having children’ - before we had children I honestly thought I’d be happy going back to work full time, and then after having DD it was like my whole world view shifted. I have felt the same as you in wanting a simpler life. Ultimately though you have to be on the same page with that.

One thing I would say is that having a toddler and newborn is incredibly tough, and the way you’re feeling now is normal, but may not be how you’re feeling in a few months time, so allow yourself and your newly expanded family some time and space to settle down and find your feet a bit before deciding what you really want.

It’s wonderful to have choices. Life is too short to waste it at work you can’t stand. Most don’t have that option, I coach people on careers and would absolutely recommend having the chat. What I woood say is that men often I’d ratify more strongly with their work identity - so doing something, less stressful but still something, usually works better than a full retirement or stay at home dad. I say this with a stay at home dh myself, but he’s a very beta person and in a later stage of life :)

You’ve said how you feel, (well done! That took guts!)

Let him return to work.. who knows maybe he will see what you’re saying when he’s back dragging his weary carcass to and from work.

You’ve sown the seeds.. who knows he might work it out for himself

Try to find a compromise and ask him if he'd consider doing one day per week less at work. It's a bit unfortunate that this has grown into an 'all or nothing' decision. And develop your own interests and social life that don't involve him.

I'm not advocating for anyone to be forced to give up their career against their will – ultimately no, she can't force him to do anything, but wanting/expecting him to take on more parenting duties is not unreasonable. This is more than an issue of 'everyone here has made their choices and has to live with them', while that is somewhat true, it's undeniable that on a societal level the expectations placed on women when it comes to parenting are not the same as those on men.

I totally understand where you're coming from and having been a SAHM / bits and pieces of part time work while my H pursued his career I'm coming out of it now the youngest is 10.

The difference for me was that DH was a bit of a slacker when I met him and got his 'big' job when I was pregnant with my second so I never signed up for the lifestyle. I'm not going to say that it was easy but I'm guessing it was a lot easier than being a single mum or skint, so I put up with it, tried to make my feelings plain wherever possible and now have gone back to work full time and am making DH do a lot of the parenting stuff too. You have to carve out things for yourself (hobbies, education, friendships) and it does feel a bit like leading separate lives for a while but it's coming together now -- and I've Covid to partly thank for that too.

Honestly, if I had my time again and knew how it would pan out I would not choose to have kids with someone who valued a big career over time with the family, but once it's done it's done isn't it? Leaving him wasn't going to make it easier, and I have loved him throughout even if I've hated him at times, so that helps.

@TedMullins

I'm not advocating for anyone to be forced to give up their career against their will – ultimately no, she can't force him to do anything, but wanting/expecting him to take on more parenting duties is not unreasonable. This is more than an issue of 'everyone here has made their choices and has to live with them', while that is somewhat true, it's undeniable that on a societal level the expectations placed on women when it comes to parenting are not the same as those on men.

She has chosen to go part time. She has specially said she wants to be home to see her kids grow. She can go back full time and use child care like eighty percent of mothers.

Of course it’s unreasonable to then say he has to do it too as she doesn’t like it. He should equally parent when home, but it’s hugely unreasonable to say I want to stay home but it’s a bit shite so can you stay home too to help me.

I don't think either of YABU. Things do change when you have children. Money isn't everything, but you need to make sure you have enough to be comfortable. I think you both need to think ahead and think about you want in the future. Create a plan for the future and work from there, compromising to try and meet both of your needs. How much time you want to spend with the children? What type of house do you want? Could you downsize but still have plenty of space? Is private education something you want for your children? Expensive holidays? When do you want to retire? What is most important to you both? From the sounds of it, cutting back doesn't mean living in poverty for you? Our setup is a smaller house which is more than big enough but with a smaller mortgage, house hasn't got expensive new kitchens and decor but is more than adequete, we are living in a very nice area with good state schools but no option to go privately due to income, not having to worrying about money at all but a simpler lifestyle without expensive holidays, gym memberships, expensive cars and clothes. It is still a lovely lifestyle, but much simpler than our peers who have much bigger houses (bigger than you need) with amazing renovations, nicer cars, expensive holidays and all the trappings. We work less hours. This works for us, I'm not saying it for everyone. It depends on what is most important to you.

PP suggested starting with small changes like him taking all his annual leave etc, that sounds like a great start. Maybe there is a half way point where he works a bit less, you get more support in the shape of nanny/nursery etc and get more social support from friends?

If he is exhausted and stressed, that isn't great for his health and also runs the risk of him burning out and not being able to work at all for a while. He needs to treat it as a marathon, not a sprint. The same goes for you, you need to look after yourself else otherwise you will struggle with the children and work. Remember the "put your oxygen mask on first" analogy.

Sorry for the long post!