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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To question whether I should pay half these costs?

179 replies

TheGodofSmallThings · 03/08/2021 23:12

We are having some work done on our house - kitchen and repairs to our roof, which will come to between £20k and £25k in total.

We both earn the same income, but DH owns a two thirds share of the house as he used an inheritance for the deposit (this was before we got married). As an aside, I am perfectly happy in the marriage, and have no intention of going anywhere (we’ve been together 22 years), but I feel increasingly uncomfortable with the tenants in common arrangement as we get older (mainly as I’ve seen family assets sucked up in care costs and the financial impact on the surviving partner when those assets were not divided equally). Given his majority share in the house, and the fact that DH has far more in savings than I do by a factor of around 20, AIBU for saying that I should only contribute a third of the costs? Or should I pay an equal amount, given that I live there? I do have the money, but it would be the entirety of my savings (and DH wants to do more work on the house next year).

Happy to be told I’m being selfish; it would at least stop us having to have a difficult conversation.

OP posts:
CakeandGo · 05/08/2021 12:18

It’s paying half the mortgage for 22 years but only owning a third at the end of the term that I can’t get my head around.

PlaybackToday · 05/08/2021 12:27

Was the declaration of trust done before you got married? I've not read the whole thread so apologies if asked. But I believe on marriage it is revoked? But you'd need to check.

UDontDans2Tekno · 05/08/2021 12:28

@TheGodofSmallThings

Remainder £60k (mortgage( OP and DH pay half each £30k & £30k (ignoring interest etc)

Yes, the principle is correct, though the sums involved are much higher, and the interest not insignificant. I've just calculated it, and we'll have paid around £74k in interest by the time the house is paid off.

It doesnt matter how much the costs are - it was an example to show how the thirds works

And you will both have paid the same interest, so it doesnt count.

UDontDans2Tekno · 05/08/2021 12:29

@CakeandGo

It’s paying half the mortgage for 22 years but only owning a third at the end of the term that I can’t get my head around.
because OP is only paying for a third of the costs- the mortgage is on 2/3s of the value of the house, not half of it

house (for example) cost £90k
DH paid £30k deposit

Remainder £60k (mortgage
OP and DH pay half each £30k & £30k (ignoring interest etc)

DH 'owns' £60 k (deposit 30k and mortgage 30k)
OP 'owns' £30k (mortgage)

DH owns 2/3
OP owns 1/3

Original poster
TheGodofSmallThings · 05/08/2021 12:37

@PlaybackToday

Was the declaration of trust done before you got married? I've not read the whole thread so apologies if asked. But I believe on marriage it is revoked? But you'd need to check.
Yes, it was pre-marriage.
OP posts:
Dacquoise · 05/08/2021 12:40

I am not convinced about the legality of a 'ring-fenced' clause regarding your house 20 years into a marriage. The house is a marital asset and if you were to divorce it would be considered as part of assets to be split. If it was needed to be shared to be able to rehouse each party I can't see the 2/3 to your husband idea being held. Marriage is a contract that makes assets 50/50. I know that prenups are very difficult to uphold and have to be updated every 5 years throughout the marriage. An agreement 20 years ago, before prenups were a thing , may not be valid.

If I were you I would be getting some legal advice on this and then discuss who pays for what.

Dacquoise · 05/08/2021 12:48

@PlaybackToday, just cross posted with you. I agree. I see a lot of post talking about ring fencing assets, inheritances etc on here. In UK law assets are shared after a period, not statutory but usually considered to be 5 years and more. Before that you leave the marriage with what you brought in.

Divorce is based on needs so one party can't keep 90% of the assets say, if they are needed to rehouse each party. The only way it would be considered is if there are multiple properties and lots of money involved. Marriage is a contract that joins finances, not keeps it from the other person.

Perhaps the conversation is not how much to contribute to the kitchen but we need to sort out the deeds to the house and our wills to reflect our actual financial status?

PlaybackToday · 05/08/2021 12:51

@TheGodofSmallThings I think you need to have an open and frank discussion about both your futures including how the house is held, care fees etc. After so many years of marriage (+ the 10yrs prior too!) you should be equal in these things. A court will start at 50/50 on divorce as a Dec of Trust is only persuasive when divorcing (I looked it up and I know this isnt what you asked about). I really hope you have the type of relationship where you can speak opening about this and DH take it on board. It might even be worth seeing a solicitor who specialises in these sorts of arrangements (probably a family lawyer). It could be the best £500 or so pounds you ever spend!

MyriadeOfThings · 05/08/2021 12:54

But you are married right?
So why are you still talking as if everything is separate? But at the same time, expect from each other to pay exactely half?

Original poster
TheGodofSmallThings · 05/08/2021 13:30

@MyriadeOfThings

But you are married right? So why are you still talking as if everything is separate? But at the same time, expect from each other to pay exactely half?
Yes, we are married. I am talking as if everything is separate, because (a) (as I have some experience of) the state treats your assets as separate for the purposes of care fees and (b) DH is apparently not in a hurry to change the tenants in common arrangement. So, if he wants to retain an arrangement in which he owns two thirds of the property, surely it is unreasonable of him to expect me to pay half of all repair and renovation costs on the property?

For PP who said that the interest was irrelevant as we'd both paid the same. Yes and no. Another PP mentioned that he has made £100k profit on the house price and I've made £50k. If you deduct the interest we've paid, I've actually made £13k and he's made £63k. I know this sounds petty and largely academic, but this is the thinking I've been led to by DH's reluctance to revisit the tenants in common agreement, even though he knows that it may cause me problems later on.

OP posts:
UDontDans2Tekno · 05/08/2021 14:31

you deduct the interest we've paid, I've actually made £13k and he's made £63k

But conversely he hasn't earned/paid interest on the 3rd he owns

Taliskerskye · 05/08/2021 14:32

In his retirement will all his money still be his. As you have said you don’t have as good a pension plan and none of those savings. So your income will be dramatically different to him, now it looks fine, but in 20 years?

coodawoodashooda · 05/08/2021 14:33

@HollowTalk

You'd be so much better off financially if you split up.
This.
NoSquirrels · 05/08/2021 14:39

So, if he wants to retain an arrangement in which he owns two thirds of the property, surely it is unreasonable of him to expect me to pay half of all repair and renovation costs on the property?

Actually, you’re in an excellent bargaining position.

Currently, he doesn’t want to change the agreement and wants you to pay 50% costs.

You would like to vary the agreement.

So you could just refuse to pay ANY costs. Not one third, zero.

Then he’ll either a) have to spend his own savings, leaving yours intact or b) concede that the agreement needs to be rewritten 50-50.

Dacquoise · 05/08/2021 14:42

This is absolute nonsense your DH is proposing here. If he wanted to keep his finances separate why did he get married in the first place? He's treating you as a separate financial entity, not his wife of 20 years.

I would consider this financial abuse. You can force his hand if you decided to leave. But if you want to stay I really don't know what you can do about this if he won't budge. Will he still go ahead with the kitchen if you don't contribute? Perhaps that's your answer.

NoSquirrels · 05/08/2021 14:44

As for what he is saving for, he is focused on saving for retirement. He is only a few years off it (there is a 13 year age gap between us). However, he will have a good pension (another discrepancy between us: his work has a far better pension scheme than mine does, and I couldn't hope to be in the same position as him, financially, on retirement).

Also, you need to save more towards your own retirement. So you have to make this a priority. So you need to decrease your contribution to the household outgoings to do this ASAP, as it will be harder when your husband has retired.

He’s not looking at your joint position holistically.
Neither are you.
You need to urgently thrash it out.

vivainsomnia · 05/08/2021 14:48

By that logic, the OP is entitled to half of her DHs inheritences and if she had that money, she'd probably be perfectly happy to pay for half of the improvements, because she wouldn't be in the situation where they would wipe out most of her savings when his has been barely touched
That makes no sense. They agree to have separate finances, so why would he share his inheritance? The same that if OP got a bonus from work, she shouldn't have to share it either. She should pay half the repairs because they both benefit equally from them in the present time.

If he passes away, I expect the savings would go to her, and likely half in the instance of divorce.

MrsTerryPratchett · 05/08/2021 14:48

As for what he is saving for, he is focused on saving for retirement. He is only a few years off it (there is a 13 year age gap between us). However, he will have a good pension (another discrepancy between us: his work has a far better pension scheme than mine does, and I couldn't hope to be in the same position as him, financially, on retirement).

Do you actually expect to be poor in retirement while he's rich? And you're both OK with that? That's not love or marriage.

NashvilleQueen · 05/08/2021 14:54

Whether you stay in the marriage or not he is absolutely taking advantage of you. You're paying half the mortgage and potentially half the improvements costs for a properly you own a third of. He can't have it both ways.

Can you bring the subject up with him or do you not feel able to?

pussycatlickinglollyices · 05/08/2021 14:55

@TheGodofSmallThings
Go to see a solicitor - both of you - you need new wills and lasting Power of Attorney.
As far as the repairs etc are concerned, have you asked if he will solely cover the costs?

BeenThruMoreThanALilBit · 05/08/2021 14:59

That your DH would be happy for you to run out of care costs while he hoards his, tells you everything you need to know.

He is defending his right to a luxury care home while you make do with whatever spot your council can find for you somewhere.

20+ years of marriage, and this is what he thinks of you.

Doesn’t matter that the money came from inheritances. What is the money for, but for looking after your loved ones?

Taliskerskye · 05/08/2021 22:10

Tbf. If you divorced you would get half his savings. Which is 100k

Naunet · 05/08/2021 23:04

OP, how have you split the cost of maintenance and repairs in the past? Do you think you’ve spent a significant amount? If so, you may be able to stake a claim to some of his reserved third. Although I’m sure that wouldn’t go down well for your relationship!

Only pay a third of the repairs, he doesn’t get to have it both ways.

BillMasen · 05/08/2021 23:08

Threads where a woman has an inheritance go quite differently to this one…

hehehhehe · 05/08/2021 23:22

I find it extraordinary that he was to own two thirds of the entire house rather than protecting the amount he paid into the deposit. Who does that. I can't imagine what the rationale was. He must have been advised by some shrewd person and you should have had someone similarly shrewd acting for you