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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'Life empty without children'

410 replies

ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 14:32

I am married and really want a family. Two of my close are single - I think one would like children if she met the right person and one is very vocal about not wanting them and they ruin lives / relationships etc.

We are TTC and have had some set backs this year, which they know about.

Over the weekend we were talking and they said that even if it doesn't happen for us, I will still have a great life with my husband, having nice holidays and more money etc and it's nothing to be sad about. But actually, I would be very sad if it doesn't work out, I yearn to have a family. I said that of course I love my husband but we both really want to be parents and to me (not everyone) my life would feel a bit pointless without children.

It's caused huge offence and taken that I think their life is pointless. I dont think that, but yes for me, holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother.

Who is BU?

OP posts:
Whoarethewho · 03/08/2021 17:31

My life is empty without motorbikes unfortunately the government won't give me motorcycle benefit though. I certainly wouldn't take offence if someone said the same about children despite me having absolutely no interest in them. However I do object to funding somebody else's life choices with child benefit though and the expectation that is is a required normal part of being a human that everyone needs to do such that it is incentivised .

Original poster
ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 17:31

@Nightlystroll of course they didn't say that word for word. But it was inferred.

I certainly didn't say that theirs or anyone else's life is pointless without children, only I felt mine would feel that way. But everyone seems to have assumed I meant their lives too.

OP posts:
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 03/08/2021 17:31

@Taliskerskye

You actually said life would be pointless without children and you wonder why they took offence.
Quite.

Not to mention if my spouse said that they wouldn’t be my spouse for much longer as I would read that as I alone wasn’t good enough personally.

drpet49 · 03/08/2021 17:34

* I said MY life. Not hers. Other people can do what they want but for me, I would feel unfulfilled.*

^YANBU. Your friends took offence when there was no need. It’s their problem not yours.

Original poster
ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 17:34

@thevassal I do see your and others points BUT the difference there is choice.

If someone is a size 12 / has a 2 bed flat / whatever and desperately doesn't want that then it's rude.

If I had children but said to someone who didn't have any but wanted them, it's different than saying as someone who does want them but doesn't.

OP posts:
Original poster
ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 17:35

@Whoarethewho what?! I'm not asking the government for money to have children

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 03/08/2021 17:35

Be honest, if someone said "I would feel disgustingly huge as a size 12" (or whatever size you are), or "I would be embarrassed to only earn (whatever your salary is) after getting a degree," or "I would feel so cramped in a tiny (flat/2 bed)" or lots of other examples, no matter how much they insisted they only meant how they felt and it had no bearing on you even though you were in the same circumstances, you'd feel a bit judged?

This makes a really good point.

Trampolean · 03/08/2021 17:35

[quote ncncncncncncncnc12]@Nightlystroll of course they didn't say that word for word. But it was inferred.

I certainly didn't say that theirs or anyone else's life is pointless without children, only I felt mine would feel that way. But everyone seems to have assumed I meant their lives too.[/quote]
So you found something they said was inferring to something when it probably wasn't, yet you're confused as to why they may have taken something you said a different way to how it was intended. Erm...

user1498572889 · 03/08/2021 17:36

I had a friend who lost a baby due to a genetic fault then she had multiple miscarriages. One day she said to me “ I don’t know why I’m here if I can’t be a mum” this made me so sad for her. She adopted a child a couple of years later and she is very happy. I also have a friend who loves being childless. She loves her life and says she doesn’t want to spend her money on anyone else or have to take a child into consideration when she decides to go on holiday. Everyone is different.

Original poster
ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 17:37

@PurpleDaisies the difference is choice. Of course saying something like that to someone with any of those things but really wanted a house is rude. But saying it someone who loves living in a 2 bed flat and openly says houses are rubbish and ruin lives is not.

OP posts:
HeyDemonsItsYaGirl · 03/08/2021 17:38

Ah, the classic combination of a clickbait thread title, goady subject, and wide-eyed "But I don't understaaaaaand" routine. Well played.

Nightlystroll · 03/08/2021 17:42

[quote ncncncncncncncnc12]@Nightlystroll of course they didn't say that word for word. But it was inferred.

I certainly didn't say that theirs or anyone else's life is pointless without children, only I felt mine would feel that way. But everyone seems to have assumed I meant their lives too.[/quote]
Your comment here exactly summarises the whole problem.

They didn't say at all that but you inferred it because of your sensitivities. They would be upset if that was your takeaway from the conversation. In the same way you didn't say their life was pointless without children but they inferred that from what you said. You would be upset if that was their takeaway from the conversation.

Can you not understand that just like you are sensitive over certain things, they are allowed to be as well. Lots of childless women are not bothered, even happy, about not having children, but they don't appreciate feeling that people are judging them, and finding their life lacking, for their decision.

Ohbeeryme · 03/08/2021 17:45

You don’t get each other. That’s fine. However I feel you’re being rough on your friend. She tried to be positive for you, you slated her life choice. And I think you did it partly because you were angry at her for saying that (my opinion only). You said your life would be pointless without kids. Of course she is going to feel you mean her too. You may not realise how often childfree women hear others tell them they should have kids/they don’t know what love is until they have kids/it’s a waste not having them/they’d be great parents/they’ll realise they want them in time… (menopause round the corner here I’m not sure when they think that’ll kick in). So yes it will be taken personally whether you meant it or not. Very trivial example here: if someone said I’d rather die than be a cleaner, but it’s fine for you - to a cleaner, it would be nasty. Car salesman/accountant/any other choice work the same. Basically, it’s good enough for them but not for you. It’s conditioned into society that the whole point in women is to reproduce, it’s so difficult to be any different to the norm. That’s why it’s also a sensitive subject for some women who don’t want them, not only women who can’t have them. I also think people don’t realise that sometimes not having kids is a decision not taken lightly. I feel like I’m going to miss out on things, there are times I feel I would love children but I don’t feel I could give them the life I’d want for them, for myself and my husband. I don’t have the family dynamic etc I’d want for them or the career. And I’m happy. My life is wonderful and I don’t feel like having them would be the best decision. But it’s not a flippant, I hate kids, I just want to holiday thing.

Weirdwonders · 03/08/2021 17:47

I don’t want children and I’m happy with that decision but even then it’s annoying when people imply that life without children is pointless (even if you’re talking about your own life) because it’s so dismissive and child free people are still in the minority. It’s hard because to some extent I feel like an outsider even if it’s a life I chose for myself so yes it touches a nerve. She was trying to reassure you and you tell her that? What more could she say to you, really?

Marmitemarinaded · 03/08/2021 17:47

[quote ncncncncncncncnc12]@Nightlystroll of course they didn't say that word for word. But it was inferred.

I certainly didn't say that theirs or anyone else's life is pointless without children, only I felt mine would feel that way. But everyone seems to have assumed I meant their lives too.[/quote]
Op

We’re not talking about we prefer savoury or sweet

We are talking about a huge life event that is fraught with complexities and very personal to some.

And you bowled in there with your view on the meaning of life with and without children.

Yes, yes - “to you” . I get that

But what you don’t seem to get is that some issues requires diplomacy and thought and sensitivity.

And you verbalising your view to women without children - didn’t display those features in the slightest

Original poster
ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 17:48

Ok. I will apologise. I am sensitive and upset and don't really want to be told the 'bright sides' of not having children because it's how I imagine my life.

OP posts:
Briarshollow · 03/08/2021 17:50

I didn’t want kids. Ever. I found them to be life ruiners (in my opinion). I then accidentally had one and I love him but it hasn’t changed my opinion.

He hasn’t given my life this magical, elemental new meaning. He’s made it harder. And different. But I wouldn’t change it now I’ve met him.

As someone who was happy to be child-free, I wouldn’t have been offended at you insinuating my life would be pointless without a child, but by-crikey I’d have laughed about you behind your back for being so daft.

PurpleDaisies · 03/08/2021 17:51

@ncncncncncncncnc12

Ok. I will apologise. I am sensitive and upset and don't really want to be told the 'bright sides' of not having children because it's how I imagine my life.
Perhaps you should tell her that. It’s an awkward conversation I’ve had with some friends of mine who do the same thing. It’s meant kindly but they don’t get it’s not helpful and is actually quite upsetting. Any sentence that starts “at least…” needs to stop before it turns into something bad. I had a pretty positive chat with one friend where she seemed to get that I just wanted to talk about feeling sad and I didn’t want her to try and make me feel better.
Youseethethingis · 03/08/2021 17:52

Id love to know how long it takes your friend to apologise for her own insensitivity.

Marmitemarinaded · 03/08/2021 17:52

@ncncncncncncncnc12

Ok. I will apologise. I am sensitive and upset and don't really want to be told the 'bright sides' of not having children because it's how I imagine my life.
Then tell them that.

That.

Marmitemarinaded · 03/08/2021 17:53

They’re close friends you say, open up.

But ploughing in with your view as you did on such a potentially emotive and fraught issue was thoughtless and you are right to apologise

Nightlystroll · 03/08/2021 17:55

@ncncncncncncncnc12

Ok. I will apologise. I am sensitive and upset and don't really want to be told the 'bright sides' of not having children because it's how I imagine my life.
They meant well but it didn't work out right for you. Just explain that and I'm sure they will be sorry for what they said. I personally will definitely think about what you've said and bear it in mind if a similar situation should occur amongst my friends. I hope everything works out well for you. x
grey12 · 03/08/2021 17:56

DH and I wanted to have children and if we couldn't conceive we would have adopted Wink it's not an easy decision but it's the process we would have started

ActonSquirrel · 03/08/2021 17:57

Children seem a bit pointless. World is over populated. Most people with them seem miserable

Drudgery of cleaning up after them and your whole life revolving around them for years. They're very expensive. Nursery fees are crippling. If you don't go back to work you lose income.

Then they grow and leave and that's that.

Many people can think of a million things they'd rather do than devote 18+ years to that.

Mreggsworth · 03/08/2021 17:58

You are not unreasonable to think that way, but I do think it is quite sad when people feel that way, I see comments (mainly on Facebook clickbait articles) from women saying things like "life was empty before children" "being a mum is the greatest thing I've ever done and will do". I cant help but feel a bit deflated that a woman would list her greatest achievement as producing off spring, and that some women have so little going for them if they are happy to be solely defined by being a mum...so was their child hood, studying years, friendships, career, love life and travel all just wasted years if they were 'empty and meaningless' before children?

I feel deeply fulfilled by those things I listed, I want children but hope my identity never becomes just 'mum' and I hope to remain fulfilled by all the other things in life.

And its rediculous to assume someone is just saying they dont want kids because they dont have the right partner, some people just dont see children in their lives and dont imagine getting joy from being a parent and thats a perfectly valid and justified way to feel. I know people who feel that way and they are very content with their life.